Leo featured in suicide cult article

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

"Neo advaita" is the new buzzword to dismiss and belittle anyone on this forum that is pointing out anything that aims to clarify the dogma here. That's kinda what makes it a cult. 

"Not awake" Passes off. Dismisses. 

You never were. Never were born. You

No it's an actual trap and you don't see it.  That's why it's a "trap"

And I was not belittling him in that thread - his teachings can be of great value but the teachings here are more complete.  Where his teachings fall short is where he still believes there are other minds outside of his own.  

And saying you were never born so you cannot die is more bypassing and speaking from the Absolute which is not in context.   You can't respond to everything with the Absolute.  It is not helpful to anyone 

[Manusia]

@Thought Art what is the point of awakening and the degree which one is attained? I don't get any more valid reason more than desire to awaken and curiosity.

[Thought Art]

3 minutes ago, Manusia said:

@Thought Art what is the point of awakening and the degree which one is attained? I don't get any more valid reason more than desire to awaken and curiosity.

The “highest Awakening” is completely useless but it’s also the greatest good and highest beauty. 
 

However, these awakenings can help you orient the relative to align more with the highest beauty, health, infinite forgiveness, Truth.  
 

Its Love. Forget the teacher of finite systems.
 

Calling this elitist is sort of funny 

In terms of enjoying the relative aspects of spirituality just explore different teachings and schools IMO 

there’s so much beauty here in this life to explore

Edited March 10, 2022 by Thought Art

[Danioover9000]

@mandyjw

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

"Neo advaita" is the new buzzword to dismiss and belittle anyone on this forum that is pointing out anything that aims to clarify the dogma here. That's kinda what makes it a cult. 

"Not awake" Passes off. Dismisses. 

You never were. Never were born. You will not die. Telling someone they will die when they realize themselves to be what they are feels very scary and off exactly because the Love, guidance that they are is saying "Nope, not possible for Me" to that thought. 

You are not a separate entity hat ever actually began. That's all. What never began cannot end. There's nothing scary of dangerous in the least about this. People create their own scary and danger when they believe is IS scary and danger and they must go through this like some final boss in a game. NO. The fear is only ever indicating a thought that comes on behalf of an imaginary separate self. "I am afraid of death." For who, Me? Hysterical. Hilarious. 

There was nothing at stake. No problem. Just a thought about one.

"All the world's a stage." Who's acting? 

   That's kind off a limiting definition of a cult, so at any point I call Neo advaita to any spiritual topic I disagree with? It's more of a way to deflect and rebut a point, but that's rhetorical rather than a cult.

   A basic explanation of a cult, is that a cult leader or recruiter isolates the new member in their compound, then slowly over time breaks down their old identity to a society/culture and old life they were living, further seperating them from their friends, family, community, while slowly building in them a new identity towards being in the cult, being a follower of a cult leader, using various manipulation techniques to break down old identity and construct new identity. The cult leader is especially narcissistic, may have degrees of sociopathy and psychopathy, and is neurotic and fears the loss of control over each member of the cult.

   So how is this place a cult, when each member still has self agency and autonomy to leave whenever they want to?

   How is Leo Gura a cult leader, when he mostlt gives warnings and disclaimers against turning this work into an ideology, warns against dangers of spiritual work? No actual cult leader is this self defeating.

   

[mandyjw]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

And I was not belittling him in that thread - his teachings can be of great value but the teachings here are more complete.  Where his teachings fall short is where he still believes there are other minds outside of his own. 

You are consistently verbatim quoting and believing what Leo writes here. 

When LEO says "RUPERT believes there are mind's outside his own" do you no see the hysterical irony here, that Leo is believing that Rupert holds in HIS mind that there are other minds. I mean...

What can you do but laugh? 

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It is not helpful to anyone 

 Nope. Not helpful to anyone. No one to help, no one who needs help. 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

You are consistently verbatim quoting and believing what Leo writes here. 

 

I became conscious of this directly.  It has nothing to do with Leo.  I actually had this awakening before Leo..but that's neither here nor there.  Be careful what you assume.

[mandyjw]

3 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

A basic explanation of a cult, is that a cult leader or recruiter isolates the new member in their compound, then slowly over time breaks down their old identity to a society/culture and old life they were living, further seperating them from their friends, family, community, while slowly building in them a new identity towards being in the cult, being a follower of a cult leader, using various manipulation techniques to break down old identity and construct new identity.

What if I told you your friends are stage blue. YOU are stage yellow. Above. Better than. What if I told you your friends and family are toxic and you should cut contact with toxic people? 

6 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

warns against dangers of spiritual work? No actual cult leader is this self defeating.

   

The "dangers" of spiritual work makes it seem special and hard to obtain, only for the smartest, bravest, most developed, highest consciousness. The hero goes through many dangers on his quest. This is implanted in everyone who thinks themselves to be a separate self, a character, a player. Watched any books or movies, ever? Seen the "Hero's Journey" episode? 

If you say there never were any threats to begin with, this isn't bravery. It's not bravery and it's not DANGEROUS to see that the rope IS NOT a snake.

But anyone who goes around saying "it is not" is "neo advaita". The one dismissing of the SOURCE of danger is dismissed. See how this works? 

[Thought Art]

One must be cautious of everyone here. 
grounded in your own direct experience

and patient 

[Danioover9000]

@Thought Art

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

The “highest Awakening” is completely useless but it’s also the greatest good and highest beauty. 
 

Calling this elitist is sort of funny 

In terms of enjoy the relative aspects of spirituality just explore different teachings and schools IMO 

there’s so much beauty here in this life to explore

   I think he meant with calling it elitist, is that there are barriers of entry to accessing the necessary psychedelics, at volume and at certain levels of intensity, that it's not easy to go through wothout having the extra cash for it,because it depends on your value system, cognitive and moral development, personality traits,states of being and general and specific life experiences and genetics that will act sometimes as barriers of entry.

   For example, if your value system is more stage blue and less stage orange, have an American cultural upbringing, worldview of a boomer, cognitively cllose minded in general, morally an absolutist, sees world more in binaries, is too habituated with normal states of being, has limited emotional range, has few general and specific life experiences outside of the USA, is middle to low class, has a wife and children to look after, intimacy problems, too busy at work, a few hard core addictions and several or so soft addictions to work through, has a hobby, health and fitness declining and needs attention, less frey matter in brain to develop more open mindedness, and has low intrapersonal intelligence to be aware of a potential ideological view of spirituality and psychedelics, well it becomes already an uphill battle for such a person to do the work needed.

[Manusia]

11 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Its Love.

Yeah man, you make me remember something.

[mandyjw]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I became conscious of this directly.  It has nothing to do with Leo.  I actually had this awakening before Leo..but that's neither here nor there.  Be careful what you assume.

I'M not dismissing YOU or YOUR awakening. I'm saying there never was a you to awaken to that there isn't a you. 

I mean, sure I'm dismissing "it", but I'm not dismissing YOU. I think you are Love and you are amazing, even the so called appearance of the separate you. 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

 

The "dangers" of spiritual work makes it seem special and hard to obtain,

No it doesn't.   You are totally projecting that onto that statement.   In fact your doing a whole lot of projecting right now.

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

What if I told you your friends are stage blue. YOU are stage yellow. Above. Better than. What if I told you your friends and family are toxic and you should cut contact with toxic people? 

The "dangers" of spiritual work makes it seem special and hard to obtain, only for the smartest, bravest, most developed, highest consciousness. The hero goes through many dangers on his quest. This is implanted in everyone who thinks themselves to be a separate self, a character, a player. Watched any books or movies, ever? Seen the "Hero's Journey" episode? 

If you say there never were any threats to begin with, this isn't bravery. It's not bravery and it's not DANGEROUS to see that the rope IS NOT a snake.

But anyone who goes around saying "it is not" is "neo advaita". The one dismissing of the SOURCE of danger is dismissed. See how this works? 

Mandy, I know people who have ended up in mental institutions. There are dangers in spiritual work. People can lose their footings on reality, go insane, commit suicide because of the nihilism… they can discover uncomfortable truths about themselves or reality that lead them to extreme depression and confusion. 
 

Stop being so arrogant 

spiral dynamics is not a game of who is better than who…. 
The guy who made it is stage blue because those are HIS VALUES. Values are relative and the spiral stages are just a tool of categorizing peoples values based on an oberrsved trend of how people change over time. 
 

There are different human survival situations, different levels of education and access to information, different pursuits and interests.

Each level of the stage is important for survival. A humans value is inherent to them being human. Not based on a scale.

Scale is a tool to understand. Should be used and transcended.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Thought Art

[Inliytened1]

Just now, mandyjw said:

 I'm saying there never was a you to awaken to that there isn't a you. 

 

This is a key mistake.   There is a you to awake.  Guess who? GOD!

 

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, Manusia said:

Yeah man, you make me remember something.

“And that reminds me of Everything Now” -Arcadefire

[mandyjw]

6 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Mandy, I know people who have ended up in mental institutions. There are dangers in spiritual work. People can lose their footings on reality, go insane, commit suicide because of the nihilism… they can discover uncomfortable truths about themselves or reality that lead them to extreme depression and confusion.

Maybe it's because what "spiritual" is, isn't WORK, and when you TRY to DO work and the separate DOER it makes you suffer, which you then believe is the same thing as insanity? Who insists that it is in fact WORK and is in fact difficult? Maybe it's not that the danger is inherent in the spiritual, but that it's in the idea of the self who needs to do work to be ok with themselves? 

6 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Stop being so arrogant 

Again, HOW, HOW please tell me how, what I'm saying is arrogant? I'm saying people are parallel. There aren't levels. There isn't higher consciousness. There's just you. being. Love. Read my comments then read Leo's. Please tell me why I'M the arrogant one for pointing this out, when people are in fact actually dying around here? 

Edited March 10, 2022 by mandyjw

[Manusia]

1 minute ago, Danioover9000 said:

 I think he meant with calling it elitist, is that there are barriers of entry to accessing the necessary psychedelics, at volume and at certain levels of intensity, that it's not easy to go through wothout having the extra cash for it,because it depends on your value system, cognitive and moral development, personality traits,states of being and general and specific life experiences and genetics that will act sometimes as barriers of entry.

I got this. And I think this is a valid statement that spirituality or experiencing love is an elite thing to do. To even start to considering pursuing spirituality or psychedelic in spiritual purpose I think one need to be certain ways of thinking, value system, cognitive, moral etc like what you say. And I think desire for become whole in love is elite mind.

But hey, I don't get the desire anymore.. I feel I need money now lol. 

[Danioover9000]

@mandyjw

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

What if I told you your friends are stage blue. YOU are stage yellow. Above. Better than. What if I told you your friends and family are toxic and you should cut contact with toxic people? 

The "dangers" of spiritual work makes it seem special and hard to obtain, only for the smartest, bravest, most developed, highest consciousness. The hero goes through many dangers on his quest. This is implanted in everyone who thinks themselves to be a separate self, a character, a player. Watched any books or movies, ever? Seen the "Hero's Journey" episode? 

If you say there never were any threats to begin with, this isn't bravery. It's not bravery and it's not DANGEROUS to see that the rope IS NOT a snake.

But anyone who goes around saying "it is not" is "neo advaita". The one dismissing of the SOURCE of danger is dismissed. See how this works? 

   Well, from the limited context and information I have, I have to assume you are behaving cult like for the first half of your speech.

   But I don't see how this place is a cult, I can freely  come and gofrom this place, a typical cult leader won't allow this, Leo sucks at being a cult leaader, sorry. People who keep using this point to attack are dreaming, deluded, in denial and are too sunk cost in fallacy and in their positions to see how dumb that attack is really.

   If anything, Youtube drama Reactionaries have more similarities to a cult leader than Leo, how they band wagon and sat and do stuff to excite their followers they have. Way more similarities to a cult.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Manusia said:

I got this. And I think this is a valid statement that spirituality or experiencing love is an elite thing to do. To even start to considering pursuing spirituality or psychedelic in spiritual purpose I think one need to be certain ways of thinking, value system, cognitive, moral etc like what you say. And I think desire for become whole in love is elite mind.

But hey, I don't get the desire anymore.. I feel I need money now lol. 

Yes i think you do need the desire..or you can just stumble on it as well..meditate and discover some amazing shit

 

[Manusia]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

 But you are God dreaming up this dream and thus you have the ability to manipulate it as God - not as the ego.  

So you as your body and ego right now cannot manipulate reality?