I asked Rupert Spira directly about solipsism - here is what he said

[Vibes]

18 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The reason why it is so tricky is because you have to be REALLY honest, so honest that you have to contradict everything you have ever been told.

I'll give an example of how trippy this is with an example.

A man commits murder at 10:00pm at a gas station while you are some where else.

You go to the gas station at 10:30 pm and see the dead body and someone tells you the man murdered him at 10:00pm and they show you a video.

The truth is the man did not kill him before you got there, the truth is the man killed the man the first time on the video you watched of him killing the person.

You might reply....how, they said he killed the guy at 10:30pm. Yeah but think about it from this perspective. Pretend every scene in your life is a movie scene. As a movie director you can film the future scenes first and the past scenes last. But God films everything...in the order that it appears. As such, since you did not see the man kill the guy, the first time the scene of the guy killing the guy happened is when you watched the video of it happening. 

And the even big mind fuck of all is actually...nothing has ever happened or will ever happen. Because this is just nothing appearing. You can suffer because the special effects of this appearance have physical and emotional pain which is just consciousness appearing as the ability to hurt. Continuous hurting is suffering. And since you are Consciousness, you are suffering. 

But if Consciousness is hurting itself its akin to self-infliction of pain, since it has no other....it has nothing to stop it but itself. It hurts itself and stops itself by arresting and investigating itself and throwing itself in jail. It's just like your immune system fighting a cancer cell. And that is all that is happening, or not happening depending on how you want to look at it. 

Yeah, it's obvious isn't it? That it only happens when I witness it, all else is flowing thoughts less dense than what we call reality. And if I keep thinking them and imagining scenarios, I will suffer. Like you said, continuous hurting.

I had a dream once where I was talking to someone and he told me a story of a man who killed a woman. It was so clear that all of that was just a story and it didn't happen, only as flimsy thoughts happening in the moment. Then I felt relieved. 

 

Edited April 22 by Vibes

[Razard86]

4 minutes ago, Vibes said:

Yeah, it's obvious isn't it? That it only happens when I witness it, all else is flowing thoughts less dense than what we call reality. And if I keep thinking them and imagining scenarios, I will suffer. Like you said, continuous hurting.

I had a dream once where I was talking to someone and he told me a story of a man who killed a woman. It was so clear that all of that was just a story and it didn't happen, only as flimsy thoughts happening in the moment. Then I felt relieved. 

 

Well what is being said. is a little more radical. Close your eyes and imagine a man killing a woman. That is equivalent to murder in real life. We say it isn't because to construct a human reality you have to make a distinction between human imagination v.s. the present moment. If you were in a state of God Consciousness, and someone committed murder in front of you it would feel no different than you closing your eyes and imagining a man killing a woman because there is no difference from the Absolute and God Consciousness is direct experience so direct that you realize there is no difference between human imagination and the present moment.

Both are equally imaginary, and that is why evil doesn't actually exist. Evil only exists at human level consciousness.

[Vibes]

11 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Well what is being said. is a little more radical. Close your eyes and imagine a man killing a woman. That is equivalent to murder in real life. We say it isn't because to construct a human reality you have to make a distinction between human imagination v.s. the present moment. If you were in a state of God Consciousness, and someone committed murder in front of you it would feel no different than you closing your eyes and imagining a man killing a woman because there is no difference from the Absolute and God Consciousness is direct experience so direct that you realize there is no difference between human imagination and the present moment.

Both are equally imaginary, and that is why evil doesn't actually exist. Evil only exists at human level consciousness.

As long as I feel to be separate I will suffer the atrocities of life.

Why do you say awakening is not what I need then? All I want is to be at peace with everything and have the honor to accept it all as God's wish.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Vibes said:

As long as I feel to be separate I will suffer the atrocities of life.

Why do you say awakening is not what I need then? All I want is to be at peace with everything and have the honor to accept it all as God's wish.

Because you are too selfish. You only suffer because you want things to fit your paradigm which is selfishness. Unless you love suffering you cannot stop suffering. You have to literally love it to death. Resistance is persistence. All attachment is due to judgment. Unconditional Love is completely unattached. It Feels the highest intensity, the deepest lows and the highest highs, the deepest sorrows and the greatest joys, and it embraces it all without resistance and as such nothing persists. All is dissolved within itself because there is nothing to stop itself being itself and thus all is expressed equally in the sea of nothing.

[Dodo]

On 24/02/2022 at 7:47 PM, Bufo Alvarius said:

I attended Rupert's online satsang and asked him directly about his stance on solipsism and recorded an audio of the conversation we had.

IMO Rupert kept beating around the bush, maybe also partly because my inquiry might have been not concise enough.

Apologies in advance if I didn't manage to include all objections that have been made by you guys in the many posts about that topic. I tried my best to get Rupert to give an definite answer to that question.

Here's a link to the audio (12 min):

https://sndup.net/kgy3/

 

On 24/02/2022 at 8:09 PM, Leo Gura said:

Can you give a written summary?

Lucian asks how he can have direct evidence that other bubbles of consciousness (aka personal first person experiences) exist for others, when for him they only appear as images/perception in his awareness. He has no evidence of a Rupert Spira (or a Leo) subjective experience. What if you are just NPC's basically, the standard solipsistic stuff.  

Rupert basically tries to say that consciousness is much vaster than your conscious mind. That when you don't perceive London for example, London does in fact still exist, even if its not in your direct experience now. London is still within consciousness, even if its not within your conscious mind's grasp at this moment,  This is in contrast to what you have said in the past. I tend to agree with Rupert Spira on this particular subject, as I believe consciousness is without form and permeates the entire picture, which means I (as an individual being) don't have to be aware of something for it to exist. 

TLDR: My parents are not figments of my imagination

 

Edited April 23 by Dodo

[CoolDreamThanks]

I'd ask him - which element of waking life proves to him that it is more real than his dreams at night? I would then tell him to notice that none of his arguments prove that. Although he probably wouldn't accept the correction.

[abrakamowse]

12 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Well what is being said. is a little more radical. Close your eyes and imagine a man killing a woman. That is equivalent to murder in real life.

Now this saying of Jesus makes more sense to me.

Matthew 5:28

But I say to you that everyone who so much as looks at a woman with evil desire for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

[Dodo]

58 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

I'd ask him - which element of waking life proves to him that it is more real than his dreams at night? I would then tell him to notice that none of his arguments prove that. Although he probably wouldn't accept the correction.

 If you are well versed in dreaming you can easily spot the differences between waking and dream. Even if there was one difference, that's enough to prove that waking reality is not dream, but there are many differences. 

In a dream go ahead and treat everyone as if they are NPC's you are not hurting anyone's feelings. In the waking reality, you should think twice. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

24 minutes ago, Dodo said:

 If you are well versed in dreaming you can easily spot the differences between waking and dream. Even if there was one difference, that's enough to prove that waking reality is not dream, but there are many differences. 

In a dream go ahead and treat everyone as if they are NPC's you are not hurting anyone's feelings. In the waking reality, you should think twice. 

Unless the function of night dreams is for them to appear less real to trick you into thinking that this reality is more real. 

They fulfilled their function in tricking you. 

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

Unless the function of night dreams is for them to appear less real to trick you into thinking that this reality is more real. 

They fulfilled their function in tricking you. 

Im here telling you, without direct experiential evidence, that you, as a human, have a unique subjective experience,  just like me, and we can talk in length about it, and we can only talk about it because it is our experience.

An AI cannot talk to me about it, because it doesn't have an experience of it. It can surely try to parrot or appear smart about the topic, but it wont get very far.

So now we know something about each other without the need of direct experiential evidence. I dont need to experience life as Leo to know Leo has his own unique experience and feelings. 

[Dodo]

18 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

Unless the function of night dreams is for them to appear less real to trick you into thinking that this reality is more real. 

They fulfilled their function in tricking you. 

Well, in my dreams I have been Spiderman, I have been a master Jedi stronger than even Anakin/Luke/Yoda, I have jumped immeasurable distances, or even flying. In a dream if I hurt someone, in a flash they can turn into something else or the dream can change, there is never such inconsistency in waking. If I hurt someone in waking, I have to live with that, correct? Or face consequences, I can't just wake up and be done with it. Unless suicide, but they say that's not cool bro. 

Maybe dream = fantasy, but waking = mathematical fantasy, making it real at its core. 1 unit +1 unit will be 2 units. Not in dreams though.  I recently had a dream where I lift a cushion and it just spawns another cushion in its place for me to lift. That breaks maths hard! Its not real. 

Edited April 23 by Dodo

[CoolDreamThanks]

5 minutes ago, Dodo said:

If I hurt someone in waking, I have to live with that, correct? Or face consequences, I can't just wake up and be done with it. Unless suicide, but they say that's not cool bro. 

Maybe dream = fantasy, but waking = mathematical fantasy, making it real at its core. 1 unit +1 unit will be 2 units. Not in dreams though.  I recently had a dream where I lift a cushion and it just spawns another cushion in its place for me to lift. That breaks maths hard! Its not real. 

You hurting someone and having to live with it because you don't know how to awaken from this dream only proves that you don't know how to wake up from this dream, not that it's real. 

A mathematical fantasy, which is what this dream is, is still unreal. Mathematics doesn't make something real. That's what virtual reality video games are. You can dream a mathematical dream at night as well, you probably have thousands of times. 
 

[CoolDreamThanks]

I would guess you lack mystical experiences in this dream. It seems very solid and mathematical to you, but it can become wonky and jello-like, just like in dreams at night.  

Edited April 23 by CoolDreamThanks

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

I would guess you lack mystical experiences in this dream. It seems very solid and mathematical to you, but it can become wonky and jello-like, just like in dreams at night.  

Ive had those, later docs told me i had psychosis. I know what I experienced was real, it wasnt dream like. Yes it was wonky and not standard, but it was real. I still needed inbreaths and outbreaths, and I could still experience and use my hands and feet without fail. Just impossible things happening around me. 

Ever heard of the saying "pinch me so I know im not dreaming"?

[CoolDreamThanks]

eh, you're confused, bruh, I can't seem to crack your mind open and correct you, but hey, all in due time. 

[Dodo]

20 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

eh, you're confused, bruh, I can't seem to crack your mind open and correct you, but hey, all in due time. 

Go check my new thread Nonipsism. Maybe my mind cracked open too much so you think is closed.

Like seeing a runner behind you, not knowing they are one lap ahead... lol

Not saying this egoically, but if I am close minded then I dont know who isnt.

Edited April 23 by Dodo

[CoolDreamThanks]

Open-mindedness isn't the issue here, but understanding is. I'll respond to your other post. My last message kinda went out of the way of discussing ideas and into attacking you, so my bad G. 

[Dodo]

25 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

eh, you're confused, bruh, I can't seem to crack your mind open and correct you, but hey, all in due time. 

Before Abraham, I am.

Before 1 2 and 3, 0 is.

Mathematics is a useful map, I don't really mind if others disagree. For a correct solution, you want others to challenge your views and try to pick them apart. If solution cracks under criticizm, it's not complete.

[CoolDreamThanks]

4 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Before Abraham, I am.

Before 1 2 and 3, 0 is.

Mathematics is a useful map, I don't really mind if others disagree. For a correct solution, you want others to challenge your views and try to pick them apart. If solution cracks under criticizm, it's not complete.

In my previous message about mathematics, I showed you that mathematics has nothing to do with something being real or an illusion. An illusion can be very mathematically rigorous. Like matrix. In fact, mathematics are a part of this illusion. There's a joke that Jesus could only count to One, which is all you really need. 

So, as you said, if a solution cracks under challenge, and yours did, it's not complete. 

Edited April 23 by CoolDreamThanks

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

In my previous message about mathematics, I showed you that mathematics has nothing to do with something being real or an illusion. An illusion can be very mathematically rigorous. Like matrix. In fact, mathematics are a part of this illusion. There's a joke that Jesus could only count to One, which is all you really need. 

You say that, but humans have observed the mathematical golden ratio that is prevalent in nature.

All you need to get that ratio is to start from 0 and 1, then start adding 2 previous to get the next.

0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13, ... .

Then you take 2 numbers next to each other and divide them. You get an approximation of the golden ratio. The higher the numbers the better the approximation. 

Your body follows the golden ratio in many ways. You can find out more or measure yourself.

Leonardo Davinci used it in the Mona Lisa and other paintings. 

Then we think about the Moon in relation to the Earth and distances between space objects and we find more maths. 

I wouldnt be quick to assume whether or not maths has any play in life.