Are most smart or successful people arrogant?

[Kay100]

My social experience is quite limited so far, in my observation lots of people who has one or more area that’s better than average, are kind of arrogant and they are always trying to make other people feel that they are better, other people are less. Like there are lots of those arrogant ‘Harvard graduates’ who think they are better than everyone. And for females, the pretty ones would look down on the ugly ones and think they are better just because they look good.

In my observation that happens a lot and I don’t see many smart or pretty people who are humble and don’t like to think they are better than others.

 I wonder what everyone else’s experiences is like? According to my past experience it’s like 90% of those people are arrogant, like I don’t remember met anyone who’s genuinely humble. Maybe my social experience is too limited... 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Kay100

[RobertZ]

The personality trait of honesty[-humility] has basically no correlation with cognitive abilities or a standard measure of fluid intelligence [the Number Series test] (Stankov, L.; Lee, J. Nastiness, Morality and Religiosity in 33 Nations. Personal. Individ. Differ. 2016, 99, 56–66). Humility is not exactly the opposite of arrogance--but note that the trait of nastiness also has little-to-no correlation with fluid intelligence (Lazar Stankov, Low Correlations between Intelligence and Big Five Personality Traits: Need to Broaden the Domain
of Personality (Journal of Intelligence, May 2018). So, the traditional view is that pure intelligence probably has no correlation with arrogance. 

By way of example, I was chatting with a very laid back and unassuming cashier at my liquor store, and it turns out that he has multiple PhDs (which demonstrates at least above-average intelligence).

On the other hand, you mention anectodal examples of people who are arrogant and intelligent. These observations seem to make intuitive sense. For example, very competitive programs (e.g., competitive academic or work places) may reward intelligence--and, at times, bullish behaviour (at least in the short term). Arrogant people seek to prove that they are the best of the best--so we might theorize that arrogance has some correlation with cognitive performance.

The Cattell-Horn-Carroll model of intelligence may provide some resolution to this paradox. This theory suggests that the developmental separation between crystallized intelligence and fluid intelligence derives from non-cognitive processes (ibid).

So, there might be a positive correlation between arrogance and crystallized intelligence, even though there is no correlation between humility and a person's pure intellectual potential. This distinction might also explain why an unassuming but highly intelligent person might work at a minimum wage job, but an arrogant bully, who sharpens his intellectual potentials in competition might appear more intelligent. 

In my experience with academia, I have found very many humble people who are highly intelligent--and some intelligent people who are arrogant, too. For example, I saw one classmate who impressed me so much with his outstanding intelligence in class, that I  tried to hook him up with my sister. He turned out to be an arrogant asshole. That taught me a lesson--don't mistake intelligence for humility [or for arrogance]. 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by RobertZ

[Kay100]

@RobertZ It was interesting to see all the references and then you mentioned you are a academia

I didn’t think there would be any correlation between high intelligence and arrogance because arrogance or humbleness is more about someone’s character right? It’s like you can use science for evil purposes or good. A person’s character decide if he uses his talent in good or bad way...

So would you say it’s half and half of the humble vs arrogant in highly intelligent people? Or one has a much higher ratio?

Edited November 8, 2021 by Kay100

[JosephKnecht]

17 hours ago, Kay100 said:

In my observation that happens a lot and I don’t see many smart or pretty people who are humble and don’t like to think they are better than others.

Success is a Reality manifesting your desires. 

If you got everything you wanted, you too will think you are better than others.

[Nos7algiK]

5 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

If you got everything you wanted, you too will think you are better than others.

Much success is born not out of fulfilling one's desires, but endlessly trying to fill a void that can't be filled. Arrogance is then born out of a false belief one has actually completed themselves as a defensive mechanism. 

To answer the question I'd say it's more even than it may appear. Media really conflates success <--> arrogance since the arrogant are the ones that present themselves in media. There are many humble people who are very successful that you will never hear of in your life. Just as there are many nobodies who have a massive ego.

Intelligence is much the same way, but too much intelligence can cause quite a bit of devilry. 

 

[RobertZ]

@Kay100 Hi Kay,

I must have mispoke--I am not in academia. Today, I'm driving a ditch witch back and forth through a ditch, unloading big rocks.  I used to be a university student. 

I would not necessarily say half of highly intelligent people are arrogant because I don't think half of people are arrogant--except maybe half of people are more arrogant than the other half. There are a certain number of particularly humble people, but their distribution is not correlated with intelligence. 

My definition of arrogance could probably use some clarification. 

[Byun Sean]

arrogance is not a result of external situations or phenomena.

Dumb people can be arrogant. Smart people can be arrogant. Rich people can be arrogant and so can poor people.

 

Arrogance is simply a bias toward great self importance vs other. It doesn't matter what circumstance that person has. If they are arrogant, they will 

be arrogant until they aren't.

[Terell Kirby]

They can be, but they also can be the most humble. It's best not to categorize.

Also, become aware if the question itself is eluding to some form of jealousy / envy within you. The ego is tricky in this way.

[Kay100]

@RobertZ ok so you are currently not a academia, how come all so many references? Picking out all the references from literatures is hard work? I would imagine it would be hard for me... how were you able to do it? ?

you mean it’s kind of random and all depends on different individual? Some intelligent people are humble but some are not, is that what you mean?

 I understand humble/arrogance is not correlated with intelligence, what I mean is,  when someone has high intelligence, this could be a reason for them to think that they can be arrogant right? Like if I’m just average in every area, there’s no reason for me to think that I’m better than others. But when someone is actually highly intelligent, now there’s a reason that they might think that they are better than others. Although some might choose not to define their value as a human in just the level of intelligence, but they choose to think all human are equal no matter what level of intelligence they have.

 I don’t understand some comments above saying ‘rich people can be arrogant and poor people can be arrogant’. Do poor people have any area that’s above average that might give them a reason to be arrogant? If not how can the poor be arrogant? I don’t get it...

I think it’s a virtue to choose to think that you are the same with others even there’s some area that you are clearly above average. That’s not easy to do and I think people who are like that are rare...

 

 

[hyruga]

Most people are not arrogant. Or at least not in an obvious way. 

So your question is fundamentally flawed. 

[RobertZ]

@Kay100

The Merriam Webster Dictionary defines arrogance as "having or showing the insulting attitude of people who believe that they are better, smarter, or more important than other people : having or showing arrogance."

Note the word "insulting." A highly person can think relatively more highly of their own intelligence without being arrogant because the truth is they are more intelligent than some other people in such an area. That person is thinking honestly and accurately. Arrogance comes into play with an insulting attitude of greater intelligence. 

Your suggestion that a person might become arrogant because they think more of their high intelligence might be correct. Note also that a person might be arrogant for many other reasons. A person might be arrogant about the number of people they have beaten up, or about their brand-name clothing. Finally, person might have delusions of grandeur, as they say, and be arrogant about their intelligence even if they are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

You identify a personality that stands out--someone who is arrogant and obviously fairly intelligent (maybe because they bulldoze you in an argument, or because the person has a socio-economic status that demonstrates an above-average degree of intelligence).

The reason a person might recognize that someone is highly intelligent may pertain to socio-economic status (e.g., you mention Harvard Graduates). For example, you might never forget sitting across from a senior lawyer in a negotiation or in questioning, who puts his feet on the table, shouts at people, and treats everyone like dirt. You might notice that that lawyer is highly intelligent for various reasons, including his position. Maybe he obtained his senior position--and crystallized or practiced his intelligence--precisely because he is arrogant. By contrast, you might never notice the intelligence of a humble (but highly intelligent) lawyer where the process runs very smoothly.

How would you know that someone is highly intelligent? In the example of someone who is humble and very intelligent, you might never notice the person's intelligence. A very intelligent but humble person might just make you feel really good about yourself, and make you feel like you have a great sense of humour.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by RobertZ

[Kay100]

@RobertZ I’m not sure how people know if someone is intelligent or not, seem like they can somehow sense it easily...

like a simple example... I went to this sports supplement shop to get some supplement for my son. I don’t know much about nutrition and supplements, I often listen to nutrition related podcasts and learn a bit at a time... I heard a lot of talk about how good supplementing collagen is, so I googled a bit about how to choose collagen supplements, and some website was explaining that there were 5 different types of collagen, which I haven’t heard from any podcasts before.

so I was asking this female sales person in this shop about what collagen supplements do they have, and then I asked which type of collagen do those supplements include. She wasn’t sure about it, I guess she didn’t know about the different types. 

Anyway I didn’t thought much about it, and I wasn’t getting collagen supplements that day anyway. But somehow I felt like her attitude towards me went a bit cold after that. 

I didn’t know why that was, it’s hard to know what other people’s thinking etc...

for me a lot of times I might realize the answer at a later time..... and I think when I was asking about the different types of collagen she kind of felt like maybe I’m the type that might read a lot etc... somehow she might felt a bit inferior at that moment, that’s why the change of attitude.....

this case is not even a problem with arrogance... I never thought about if I was more intelligent or not, I was just asking about something I saw on google... but somehow she felt inferior from it...

do you think people will not like you if they think you are better than them in someway.... it doesn’t matter if you are showing arrogance towards others or not, even if you are genuinely humble and trying to be nice, but if others think you have more than them in some area, they will not like you because you make them feeling less. even you are not showing any ‘insulting attitude’, the fact that you do have more, already make them upset. They will not like you no matter how nice you try to be.

[RobertZ]

I think your example is a question of perspective. If you are an absolute lover of collagen--like you have 59 bottles of the stuff, and you are asking an employee if their business carries a Certain brand name: fair enough.

But, if you have not read the ingredient labels on the bottles of collagen, and you are asking a cashier obscure questions about amino acid ratios--then the Cashier might justifiably feel like you were making a fool of her (if you ask about amino content, or some obscure question like that). She is trying to help out and sell products--she doesn't know about arcane criteria of the collagen protein content or anything. 

Don't worry. You can always Ask her out if you are attracted to her (even though you have a son). Just apologize and explain that you think she is super cool. Otherwise, any comments are bit a big deal. Just forget about your comments and move on. 

Here is my rule of thumb. People remember how you make them feel--they don't remember what you say. So, it does not really matter what you say to anyone. The important thing is to say kind and loving things to each person--to make her or him feel good about themself. Say nice and gracious things, and you are a wise person.
You are the best, @Kay100

Edited November 11, 2021 by RobertZ

[Kay100]

@RobertZ that’s an interesting point heh... maybe she’s attracted to me and when I started asking about weird  questions on nutrients she realized maybe I might be a different type of person that like to occasionally go into the rabbit hole of detailed nutrient contents... maybe I unintentionally made her thought she’s ‘less’ in some way so she’s annoyed...

It’s really difficult lots of times to figure out what other people are actually thinking... like in social situations, you have conversations with people and usually you trying to get cues from their response, if they are keen to talk to you more or if they seem not keen maybe I should try not to keep talking.... it would be bad if you get people trapped in conversations they don’t enjoy because you didn’t pick up the cue that they are not interested...

In the past I use to be bad at it and try to make connections with people without realizing they are not interested....

you meet all kinds of people in social situations and when I come home sometimes I like to think back and wanted to know, what could be the reason that this person seemed to  didn’t like something about me....

cause people will not say out loud what’s their impression of you and why they don’t like you..... it’s all up to my intuition I guess, to try to figure out what others were thinking..... 

 

[Nahm]

On 11/9/2021 at 3:14 AM, Kay100 said:

 I understand humble/arrogance is not correlated with intelligence, what I mean is,  when someone has high intelligence, this could be a reason for them to think that they can be arrogant right? L

I’d say there is a direct correlation. Arrogance is the identifying, the ‘my’ intelligence, the claiming via the self referential belief the intelligence is ‘mine’.

Humility on the other hand is truth.  

If you feel the discord, slow down and notice it, as not to unknowingly adopt conjecture. Feel the difference, of humility, while witnessing others carry on arrogantly. 

Apply common sense, in that they are not experiencing any success. Know that by how you feel in witnessing it. While it may look like that from the outside depending on how you’re measuring or thinking about success, see (feel) the obviousness in your own feeling guidance, that they are experiencing intense discord with such a misunderstanding, just like you would be if you believed the same. To solidly your understanding of this, notice the things, people, substances, etc, they use to compensate for the discord of the carrying of the belief / self image / false identifying. 

This ‘claiming’ is living life through the delusional lens of ‘the separate self’, and life gets reduced to a means of upholding the claim via self image and manipulation. Again, might look like success, but… notice it’s most likely that very person who is telling you what success is. Have compassion as you realize they truly do not feel or know success at all. 

[something_else]

The distinction between arrogance and confidence is important. Arrogance usually arises when one is actually deep down insecure about the given field/area. Quiet confidence is the truest display of security in one's skill. You'll see many masters of whatever skill you want to look at typically display a quiet confidence and and acceptance that they don't know everything about the domain. There's always more to learn and the are humble about that fact

Not to say there aren't also arrogant masters. But it's hard to master something when you think you already know everything about it

[Nahm]

@something_else Very nicely said. 

[Kay100]

@something_else yeah I guess that could be a common reason for someone to be arrogant, when they are actually insecure inside. I remember once heard something like "if someone always try hard to show that he's smart, is it because he actually think that he's really smart, or is it the opposite"? And often it's because they actually don't think they are smart so they are trying hard to show that they are so other people won't find out that they are actually not that smart... if they are confident about themselves they don't have to try hard to prove to others that they are good in a certain aspect.....

I remember when watching a previous season of "Bachlorette", there was this one guy in the show who was an "arrogant" Harvard graduate. He definitely show off as arrogant, the way he carries him self shows that..... I think his reason of being in an arrogant way is parcially because maybe he actually think he's better than everyone, maybe that's a part of it....

Later in the show he started to pick on this younger guy. He keep saying things like he's like a 'baby', and he gave him a book named "Emotional Intellegence". I think what he's implying is that this guy is too young and has no emotional intellenge. I'm guessing the reason that he does that might come from insecurity? He's obviously not one of the favorites of the Bechlorette in the show, so he's just trying to pick on someone to show that he's better in someway...

That's my guess, can't really know what's going on in someone's mind..... but I think that might be mostly it.....

Sometimes I find it interesting to watch reality tv shows, it's kind of entertaining and at the same time it's like a way to kind of observe human behavior and conflicts heh.... not sure if anyone else is interested in reality tv this way too....

[something_else]

@Kay100 If you constantly feel the need to prove why you're better than others, the only reason for that is because you either want to convince others you're the best or you want to convince yourself. In either case, you don't truly believe you're the best

If you actually believed you were the best in the world at a skill, you wouldn't feel the need to prove it constantly, however you also wouldn't be weak and overly humble, you would show everyone who's boss when the situation called for it. That's the sign of true mastery. It's a balancing act

But you will get people who are extremely competent and also arrogant which is probably where this guy you're talking about falls. In real life you should avoid these people and focus on yourself. Because these people will only ever put you down as they have no interest in helping anyone reach the same level as them, they will instead try to ensure you stay below them to preserve their ego

 

[Kay100]

@something_else you are quite right... I like what you said about balancing between being humble and competent.

And you are probably right about the competent and arrogant type as well... I guess it helps to be socially smart and recognize what type of people you are dealing with and handle things accordingly..