Going beyond self-realization

[aetheroar]

@Mu_ Thank you. The strange thing is that there's no questions to be found...they all dissolve the moment they arise, which is probably what the confusion is coming from...it's just the feeling of something potentially being a key to understanding but that thing can't be located.

[aetheroar]

@Breakingthewall NN DMT. At this point of realization, psychedelics are clearly telling me to be done with them.

The strange thing is that the meditator/meditation duality collapsed the moment of self-realization, the void was seen as the absolute core of being, yet the meditator and meditation no longer exist. Meditation completely stopped making sense in the moment the meditator vanished. I suppose that truly this means that there's nothing to be done, as "I" now exist as the end goal of meditation. *shrugs*

[GreenWoods]

@aetheroar You have dissolved illusions and now all that's left is Consciousness/Nothingness?

This Consciousness/Nothingness is God/Love, but not in it's pure form. For that to happen you must increase your consciousness. It is unlikely that you will get there simply by deconstructing and dissolving illusions, that's why few traditional meditators like Buddhists wake up to God. And if you get there simply through deconstructing, it will most likely only be subtle.

You can realize that your current state (Consciousness/Nothingness) IS God and Love, but that is veeeeeery different from ACTUALLY  BECOMING God and Love.

Who becomes God? God. God is whatever is happening right now. But God is in a low state of consciousness, not very conscious of Itself. To become more conscious of Itself, to awaken to Itself, consciousness needs to increase. 

The easiest way is psychedelics.

Next is taking psychedelics in dreams and lucid dreams. 

Next are transmissions, imo. The best is the Pure Divinity transmission and SAT. But others are good too. You need to get them regularly for months, till they get so strong that your whole body is buzzing from the energy, you are completely submerged in the energy, that's when it's really altering your state of consciousness. And if your baseline is high enough and you had done enough self inquiry to clear the way, then you can break through to God Infinity Love.

Edited October 26, 2021 by GreenWoods

[aetheroar]

@Nahm

Quote

This sounds like no self realization (psychological / cognitive, yet actual realization) vs Self realization (ineffable). Some thought activity / paradigms are finicky, like possession of / experience of states of consciousness, God realization, etc. With no self, there remains still consciousness. With self realization there isn’t / wasn’t consciousness, God, states, etc. ‘It’s’ realized to be communicative as words or pointings but not actual, and similarly, happiness. In the sense no self realization is the collapse of the “I” and of the repetition of distinctions previously innocently misconceived (duality, subject object thoughts, self referential thoughts, etc) , self realization is the apocalypse of reality. (Not meant poetically or as an embellishment). 
 

This seems possible, certainly. How would one move forward on the path to attaining the ineffable realization after "the one" has already been realized as non-existent? It's as if the practice vanished with the practicing. There's no desires, nothing to do...life simply unfolds completely automatically, all things are of absolute beauty, no wish for anything to be any different, no attractions, no aversions...the mind doesn't name, create distinctions, and in fact is completely still and silent.

Wow, really seeing the perspective of this for the first time. There's literally nothing to do and no one to do it, any feeling of incompletion is simply the mind trying to gain traction. Huh. *complete silence followed this*

Curious what you mean about the states of consciousness...completely honest, most terminology isn't known to "me" because I've done this totally directly...the mind doesn't even have a definition for consciousness. Guessing on a definition of consciousness as "perceivable phenomena", is this correct? Are you pointing to consciousness being non-existent because there has only ever been the form/emptiness singularity?

It's as if there's a puzzle piece missing  to the full understanding of Allness being the absolute Truth, though even typing this, Allness is felt to be known absolutely.

Wow...there's literally nothing there.

[GreenWoods]

@aetheroar Just because the seperate self is gone, doesn't mean it's the end.

It definitely is the end for the seperate self.

But it's not the end for God. The awakening of God has only started.

Now it's no longer an individual trying to wake up (because it has already died). Now it's God waking up to Itself. It has nothing to do with a seperate self anymore.

The game of existence is not about dissolving the seperate self and realizing Nothingness.

The game of existence is God waking up to Itself.  Realizing that that Nothingness/Consciousness is God in a low state of consciousness, and the actual game can start now. The place where meditators say they reached liberation and stop, is actually the start of Gods journey, of God waking up to Itself.

Edited October 26, 2021 by GreenWoods

[Nahm]

23 minutes ago, aetheroar said:

@Nahm

This seems possible, certainly. How would one move forward on the path to attaining the ineffable realization after "the one" has already been realized as non-existent?

Recognition & inspection of conflicting thoughts / perspectives. 

Quote

It's as if the practice vanished with the practicing. There's no desires, nothing to do...life simply unfolds completely automatically, all things are of absolute beauty, no wish for anything to be any different, no attractions, no aversions...the mind doesn't name, create distinctions, and in fact is completely still and silent.

Similarly, there is the desire for attainment while there is said to be no desire. 

Quote

Wow, really seeing the perspective of this for the first time. There's literally nothing to do and no one to do it, any feeling of incompletion is simply the mind trying to gain traction. Huh. *complete silence followed this*

?

Quote

Curious what you mean about the states of consciousness...completely honest, most terminology isn't known to "me" because I've done this totally directly...the mind doesn't even have a definition for consciousness. Guessing on a definition of consciousness as "perceivable phenomena", is this correct?

Nothing is meant by states of consciousness. That is the point. It’s a thought, a belief, which could seem to have meaning, which would point to thought attachment & identifying with or by thoughts. Likewise, ‘I’ve done this’. There is the realization the mind doesn’t have a definition for consciousness, and it is delightful. There is also the realization there isn’t a mind which has anything at all, because there isn’t “mind”. 

Quote

Are you pointing to consciousness being non-existent because there has only ever been the form/emptiness singularity?

There is a realization that there isn’t any actuality of “consciousness”, and this is not the same as consciousness being non-existent. The former is realization, the latter is a belief. 

Quote

It's as if there's a puzzle piece missing  to the full understanding of Allness being the absolute Truth, though even typing this, Allness is felt to be known absolutely.

Wow...there's literally nothing there.

Similarly, there is realization of nothing, and thought or belief of nothing. 

[aetheroar]

@Swarnim Sure thing

[aetheroar]

@GreenWoods Thanks for this...it makes sense. Transmissions were considered a few months ago, but couldn't find anywhere to receive.

It honestly seems immensely counterintuitive that one wouldn't be capable of full God realization directly and without the use of psychedelics or guru's.

[aetheroar]

@GreenWoods This sounds lovely in conceptual form, but wouldn't it be actually impossible for God to wake up to itself? If God is infinite and singular, it could ONLY know itself from within itself. The singularity can not finitely wake up to itself, as itself is whole and realizing fullness would then fully dissolve itself, yes? Low state of consciousness also doesn't seem to make sense to me either, what about it is low or high?

[aetheroar]

@Nahm Ahh, this might be just what was needed. It seems that the furthering would be brought about by consistent reminding that all things thought are no things real. This is known deeply and the insight usually does take a split second, but the split does seem to be there at times, hence it not being realized...

Some half formed ideas of what has been learned so far on this path seem to be what is standing in the way and remaining to be released. Instead of trying to complete the ideas so to understand and then release, perhaps they should just be released.

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, aetheroar said:

@GreenWoods This sounds lovely in conceptual form, but wouldn't it be actua impossible for God to wake up to itself? 

Remember that God transcends logic.. (or is prior to it). Relative possible and impossible are imagined by God.  The greatest gift God can give itself is to realize it's own Infinity.  And since you are God - it's within your grasp

 

[Nahm]

26 minutes ago, aetheroar said:

@Nahm Ahh, this might be just what was needed. It seems that the furthering would be brought about by consistent reminding that all things thought are no things real. This is known deeply and the insight usually does take a split second, but the split does seem to be there at times, hence it not being realized...

This would emphasize and expand the ‘conflict’ though, as reminding in & of itself would be the thought activity of there being one reminded, and this thought activity would in & of itself be the veil, of that ineffable, appearing as, the very thoughts, or remindings.

26 minutes ago, aetheroar said:

Some half formed ideas of what has been learned so far on this path seem to be what is standing in the way and remaining to be released. Instead of trying to complete the ideas so to understand and then release, perhaps they should just be released.

?

[Breakingthewall]

@aetheroar if you have done nn dmt multiple times, i would consider doing 5 meo dmt. my experience with 5 meo resonates with what you explain. many times, in doing so, I disappear completely and there is nothing. the core of reality is absolute emptiness ... and that's it. I would not call it I am not, but neither i am . nothing, nothing empty. the ego doesn't like it, I don't know how you can get there without psychedelics. Doing it as you have done, meditating, seems to me a huge achievement. If I do it again later, or the next day, this has happened: I disappear and there is nothing, but that nothing opens, it acquires an absolutely evident quality: it is infinite. I am absolutely emptiness, but that emptiness, in its infinity, is total. absolutely total, and then that emptiness is an absolute joy. it's everything, full, and that's what I am. it is the same emptiness, the same nothingness, but it reveals itself as the infinite source through which you flow. nothing that the mind, at least mine, can even remotely understand. 

As this has happened with chemist, I don't understand the process that makes it possible, but I would say that the difference between emptiness and infinity is: completely accept emptiness without any reservation or expectation. annihilate yourself by becoming nothing, fully accepting your disappearance

Edited October 26, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[The Buddha]

There is a saying in zen:

+Now what Master?

-Now keep walking

[GreenWoods]

6 hours ago, aetheroar said:

. Transmissions were considered a few months ago, but couldn't find anywhere to receive.

Here are plenty of options :

6 hours ago, aetheroar said:

It  honestly seems immensely counterintuitive that one wouldn't be capable of full God realization directly and without the use of psychedelics or guru's.

It's possble but just extremely difficult. God Realization is a RADICAL change of consciousness and therefore requires a radical technique that can induce that change.

Just because meditation has been used for thousands of years doeant mean its the best technique. When you find out about a excavating machine, you can put the shovel aside.

Psychdelics, dreams and transmissions aren't the only options. But they are more powerful and or more practical.

Alternatives are:

• sleep yoga
• invoking angels 
• dark room retreat
• shamanic breathing

6 hours ago, aetheroar said:

@GreenWoods This sounds lovely in conceptual form, but wouldn't it be actually impossible for God to wake up to itself? 

To wake up to Itself means to become conscious of Itself. God IS Consciousness, so it's possible. There are however infinite degrees of how much God can be conscious of Itself. 

6 hours ago, aetheroar said:

? If God is infinite and singular, it could ONLY know itself from within itself. 

Do you mean from within the dream? That is a very dualistic idea. And is actually not possible, because "within" the dream actually doesn't exist. All there is is God, God in different states of consciousness, either conscious of Itself or not.

6 hours ago, aetheroar said:

 Low state of consciousness also doesn't seem to make sense to me either, what about it is low or high?

God is Consciousness.

God conscious of Itself = high state of consciousness 

God not conscious of Itself = low state of consciousness 

 Every state of consciousness is God's state of consciousness. 

[Mu_]

@aetheroar   If all thoughts and desires have subsided, then what is this question called god and wondering where it is?  I've found when it is let go, then within this unknown that, this curious wondering about god, finds you.  When you want to wake up to yourself, IT WILL, and the adventure will seem like the current you finds god and learns that it is YOU.