What SD stage was the romanticist movement at?

[ArchangelG]

19 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Atleast explain why lol

As far as I know The Romance was a reaction to the enlightenment, which was orange, where emotion was seen as more important than reason.

[Woke456]

 

41 minutes ago, Regan said:

@Woke456 you're not talking about romanticism, you're talking about the industrial revolution. romanticism was a move away from the industrial revolution because it held different values.

Romanticism started when the Industrial Revolution started.  They go hand-in-hand.  You may even call it the Industrial Revolution's shadow. Or, you may recognize that a lot of people started earning more than a dollar a day which led to all sorts of recreational activities, Romanticism included.

[Woke456]

1 hour ago, Windappreciator said:

You come off more as if you're trying to defend an original idea you had which would be broken if you were to believe this is a green stage thing.

Desiring to be at recess instead of at a school desk or factory is not a stage green original idea.

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, ArchangelG said:

As far as I know The Romance was a reaction to the enlightenment, which was orange, where emotion was seen as more important than reason.

It's a bit simplistic to assume that just because a movement is reacting to one facet of Orange (cognitive facet) that it must necessarily belong to a different stage. Stages have different facets, and every stage has an emotional facet, and you can put different emphasis on different facets. Without emotions, you'll have no motives or drives, and that's also true for a heavily cognitive Orange.

Søren Kierkegaard referred to the romanticist movement when describing the aestheticist stage of his existentialist model, which is an individualistic, hedonistic, disinhibited and care-free stage. These are Red or Orange motives/drives.

The reason it's not Red is because the movement happened in a world with a strong Blue-Orange cultural baseline, and the reason it's not Green is because it misses the overt collectivist component (and dare I say ethical and emotional component – social justice and sensitivity).

But what about the focus on nature? Is that not Green? Not really. It's only the cognitive component of Orange that demystifies nature, and you can react to that component from any stage, including from within Orange. Green also emphasizes nature from more than just an aesthetic/emotional perspective. Don't forget that Green also has a cognitive component which is pro-nature (meta-systematic, quasi-holism, worldcentric collectivism; sees larger interconnectedness).

To summarize, I'm arguing that the romanticist movement is best explained as a movement that emphasized the emotional facet of Orange and neglected the cognitive facet. Early 18th century was also not a sufficiently developed time for widespread Green to appear. That takes centuries of Orange.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Windappreciator]

1 hour ago, Woke456 said:

Desiring to be at recess instead of at a school desk or factory is not a stage green original idea.

I am stunned, that is exactly my point. Please read what I have written.

[Woke456]

11 hours ago, Windappreciator said:

Probably green in that felt surpressed by blue at that time.

Lol, why are you trying to give green credit for recess?

[Windappreciator]

18 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

Lol, why are you trying to give green credit for recess?

You must have some sort of neurological condition.

[Woke456]

9 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

You must have some sort of neurological condition.

Explain.  

[Regan]

4 hours ago, Woke456 said:

 

Romanticism started when the Industrial Revolution started.  They go hand-in-hand.  You may even call it the Industrial Revolution's shadow. Or, you may recognize that a lot of people started earning more than a dollar a day which led to all sorts of recreational activities, Romanticism included.

1. it started a little after

2. they are not the same thing, the romantic movement was not a 'recreational activity'

it doesn't matter if two movements co-existed during a similar period of time, most movements did

 what we're talking about is what the romantic movement represented, not where it may or may not have came from

Edited May 21, 2021 by Regan

[Regan]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

To summarize, I'm arguing that the romanticist movement is best explained as a movement that emphasized the emotional facet of Orange and neglected the cognitive facet. Early 18th century was also not a sufficiently developed time for widespread Green to appear. That takes centuries of Orange.

you could say it was ahead of its time. obviously, western society hadn't exhausted orange, as technology hadn't advanced anywhere close to orange's potential.

but just cos society hadn't evolved to that level doesn't mean the romantic movement, or any movement, can't think beyond where society is at

the 1960's counterculture is a great example of that, which was green (with the Port Huron statement incorporating yellow) in a society that was definitely not

[AtheisticNonduality]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

individualistic, hedonistic, disinhibited and care-free stage.

Hippies making love, smoking weed, and protesting against society could be considered individualistic, hedonistic, disinhibited, and care-free. I don't buy the individual-collective-individual-collective pattern SD claims.

[lmfao]

Romanticism is stage Woke and Based, that's all that matters. All other discussion here is one of history, time periods and different schools/traditions. You'll find any color version of romanticism you want to find. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by lmfao

[Carl-Richard]

54 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Hippies making love, smoking weed, and protesting against society could be considered individualistic, hedonistic, disinhibited, and care-free. I don't buy the individual-collective-individual-collective pattern SD claims.

Sure. It's natural for the higher stages to include aspects of the lower stages, but Green additionally has some more refined aspects like sensitivity, compassion, social awareness, which all ties into collectivism. What are hippies protesting against and on what grounds? Is protesting really care-free? 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Regan said:

the 1960's counterculture is a great example of that, which was green (with the Port Huron statement incorporating yellow) in a society that was definitely not

1960s is not comparable to early 1800s though. Back in those days, things like Women's rights, environmentalism and anti-capitalism basically didn't exist. Again, romanticism misses that crucial social, meta-systematic and collectivist component which distinguishes Green from Orange, which is why I did the analysis on the level of facets.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Regan]

On 22/05/2021 at 0:00 AM, Carl-Richard said:

1960s is not comparable to early 1800s though. Back in those days, things like Women's rights, environmentalism and anti-capitalism basically didn't exist.

It's all comparable, it's just context dependant; the ego would have still developed in similar ways. Women's rights were debated during the romantic era, and concerns for environmentalism and anti-capitalism were expressed too, just differently.

Romanticism also wasn't reflective of an entire society, so it didn't have systems to create. It was rather just a culture discussing new ideas contrary to that of mainstream society, so a counterculture-in-and-of-itself 

[Carl-Richard]

38 minutes ago, Regan said:

It's all comparable

just differently.

You can compare anything with anything, but some things are easier to compare than others. 1960s and 1800s are not very comparable. Imagine trying to explain Foucault's philosophy to Rousseau.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Carl-Richard