Feeling discouraged on the path towards enlightenment.

[WhatAWondefulWorld]

Honestly, right now, enlightenment feels like a really attractive lie that Leo told me about, and i fell for it like a fool. I feel there is something there, it just seems implausible to my mind, enlightement isnt anything at all is it? Because i've looked and i've looked, nothing has turned up that i could call "enlightenment". Ive done so much looking. That is the trick though right? Nothing has showed up, is that the enlightenment? Its just absolutely nothing? Beyond the idea of nothing in the mind.

Edited March 23, 2021 by WhatAWondefulWorld

[Blackhawk]

They will tell you to take psychedelics, preferably 5-MeO-DMT.

Maybe that's what you should do, I don't know.

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, WhatAWondefulWorld said:

Honestly, right now, enlightenment feels like a really attractive lie that Leo told me about, and i fell for it like a fool. I feel there is something there, it just seems implausible to my mind, enlightement isnt anything at all is it? Because i've looked and i've looked, nothing has turned up that i could call "enlightenment". Ive done so much looking. That is the trick though right? Nothing has showed up, is that the enlightenment? Its just absolutely nothing? Beyond the idea of nothing in the mind.

It does sound like a weird joke and that there isn’t enlightenment, and it’s just, this. It is this, in plain sight, nothing hidden, but... realization of this will rock your reality and turn you inside out and outside in, so no, you have not found or realized enlightenment. Enlightenment is absolutely nothing, and yet ‘it’ is not the thought, belief, concept, idea, or imagining of enlightenment. I’d suggest enlightenment lies prior to  and not beyond the mind, and inspecting “regular reality” for what is actual is the way, rather than looking. 

It could be said to be a solid place on the path though, the realization enlightenment is not a thought, idea, belief or something you imagine. This might bring about a new perspective in regard to alignment, self & reality understanding, practices, trips, etc. 

[WhatAWondefulWorld]

@Nahm thank you 

[VeganAwake]

4 hours ago, WhatAWondefulWorld said:

Honestly, right now, enlightenment feels like a really attractive lie that Leo told me about, and i fell for it like a fool. I feel there is something there, it just seems implausible to my mind, enlightement isnt anything at all is it? Because i've looked and i've looked, nothing has turned up that i could call "enlightenment". Ive done so much looking. That is the trick though right? Nothing has showed up, is that the enlightenment? Its just absolutely nothing? Beyond the idea of nothing in the mind.

Who is asking?

[WhatAWondefulWorld]

@VeganAwake well i suppose i am. Who else would be asking?

[Bodhitree]

There is this description of enlightenment, it’s from Da Free John’s The Knee of Listening. There is a thing the sadhu’ s do in India, they for a good while keep telling their hand to become a fist. It’s not squeezing exactly but just continually telling your hand, be a fist. Then eventually you won’t be able to easily relax your hand anymore, it will take consistent effort telling the hand to relax and stretch out. Enlightenment is like that, a process of slowly relaxing and letting go of something that has always been tense and has gotten used to being like that. 
 

This is why when you hear stories of enlightenment they often occur at the point where the person has given up the search. They search for years and years, then they stop, give up, and suddenly in the here and now what they searched for is there. So when you reach this point, of giving up the long search, be aware, it is a moment of opportunity.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Bodhitree

[WhatAWondefulWorld]

@Bodhitree well unfortunately now does not seem the time for it... the search continues. Thank you.

Edited March 23, 2021 by WhatAWondefulWorld

[Endangered-EGO]

@WhatAWondefulWorld Look man. Enlightenment is heavily sugar-coated. "It's the end of suffering and reunification with God."

Honestly, best I can say is: it's not. It has stages of liberation and stages of realisation.

Liberation from the ego is to have an insight, that thoughts have no base, and that the lower self is a self feeding thought-loop.
If you want that, you absolutely have to contemplate thoughts, types of thoughts, ego and spiritual ego. I can almost guarantee you, you have a spiritual ego, that's basically your "controled thoughts" fighting your random thoughts, because your "controled thoughts" want to get the random thoughts to enlightenment. If you contemplate thoughts, thought patterns, thought leading to emotion leading to other thought. It's a matter of hours until you realise something, not days, not months, not years. And that something, you'll feel it as freedom. That's liberation from the ego.

I don't know if it's helpful if I tell you what happens, because you have to take the initiative to find out. Here it is: Mind has control, and can't stop thinking about thoughts, there is a problem "I AM NOT ENLIGHTENED", "I HAVE TO FIND A SOLUTION TO THAT", and once you realise that thought just react to thought, that react to emotion, you'll know that it's not "you" and that you can stop the thoughts, without suppressing them, because it's pointless. You'll realise that the "do-er", the "decider", the one that has to solve that problem is just thoughts. There's nothing YOU can do, or cease to do. 

That's usually the first degree of liberation. However you can forget that, and there's nothing you can do to remember it. I call that understanding the paradox. You'll see.
However, that will only lead you to (temporarily probably) cease hurting yourself with thoughts. Suffering still occurs at an emotional and physical level.

That's IMO the easiest but necessary step towards enlightenment you can have. If you're like me, you are going to forget it, and have to go back again.
The mind WILL untangle itself.

After that, for becoming the witness or dropping into equanimity, you'll have to meditate and do self inquiry. becoming the witness feels like everything you do happens on it's own and your mind will freak out. This takes away a HUGE deal of emotional suffering.

There are Equanimity states beyond that, that takes away a big part of physical suffering.

This is very real. If you want to go towards liberation, I recommend adyashanti. He's not so obsessed about truth, but has a fast and comfortable practice towards liberation.

You can change your perspective towards enlightenment. Successful meditation with letting go is not the path towards enlightenment, it is enlightenment.

But hey, guess what. I still suffer, mentally, emotionally and physically. I had states of deep equanimity, and there are very probably people here that are in that state 24/7.

[Endangered-EGO]

8 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Who is asking?

@VeganAwake I know you are trying to help, and I agree that is a direct pointer, but this often is not enough.

"It's me, it's my ego. I know I am deep into the illusion, that's why I want to kill my ego" is the classical reponse to that.

Maybe we should continue, after "who is asking", to say "What is the thing that thinks about 'who is asking' ". "Is the awareness doing that or is it just thoughts.". "What are you NOW when you are not asking". "Does the thing that asks, have a substance? Or can it also make random noises?". "What fuels the question? Other questions/thoughts?". "What's the questions without a verbal thought?"

I'm sure some people here can do it 10x better than me and have done it 100s of time, but "who is asking?" can be taken the wrong way and often doesn't go deep enough.

Maybe we should have copy-paste notes with every possible reaction to it, and responses to a pointer.

I might create something the next days.

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Endangered-EGO said:

I might create something the next days.

What is "I"?

What does "I" consist of?

Where is "I" located?

Can you put your finger on it?

Or

Is "I" a mere concept or assumption of thought?

"I" or "ME" is an illusion. A misidentification with conditioned thinking. 

So the Seeker starts out on a journey from a skewed perception to begin with. Sort of like starting on a quest with a map of the wrong territory.

I never finds what it's seeking because I isn't real.

Needless to say it's quite funny when it's recognized ❤

 

 

 

[snowyowl]

'Who is looking?' can be can be expressed another way: 'how am I looking?'.  Because the process of looking creates the sense of self, when looking is done dualistically. Ie a subject looking outwards towards an object, is separation, selfhood. . This is our deeply ingrained habit, and meditation (or other techniques) are like exercises in changing how we observe. It is possible to simply observe without observer or observed (awakening), but it takes most of us a lot of practice, especially when the meditation instructions can't tell you directly how to. 

[Raptorsin7]

@WhatAWondefulWorld Your experience as it is right now contains everything you want with respect to enlightenment and ending your suffering.

Become aware of the fact that right now you are aware as you read this. You can't miss the fact that you're aware because right now you're aware reading this.

If that resonates then recognize that right now you (the you that is aware) has a feeling tone to it, or a substance, or you have a nature. Rest as what you are, the self aware feeling awareness. Rest in that space.

The act of seeking happiness in anything other than your direct experience of yourself is what will cause you suffering and prevent you from realizing that your experience right now contains everything you want.

I got a lot of value from Rupert Spira's videos on how the nature of ourselves is the happiness we are seeking on the spiritual path. I basically use his videos as my guided meditations and it's been life changing.

 

[Kalki Avatar]

@WhatAWondefulWorld If the path of investigating doesnt work, change.

Surrender all search, movement, thought, resistance, everything. 

If you have the innocence to trust and go through that hell of resistance, you will taste Heaven (Truth) , as it is the only thing that will remain. 

[Eternity]

Stop searching.   You are who you are looking for.  You are that.  Not your ego because ego wants to run your life into the ground.  It can't in reality but if you give it the power it will try.  It is your own divine essence that you seek.  But it is all ready you.  You don't have to seek it.  Read the collection Ramana Maharshi's words: https://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/.

They are so clear, the collection erases any doubts.  See "Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi"