Is Spiral Dynamics an Ideology?

[UDT]

Is it? Should be abort the model even though it seems to explain a lot about society and individuals - is this just confirmation bias? 

[Leo Gura]

It is a scientific model.

You can of course turn science into an ideology, but that's on you.

[StarStruck]

Spiral stage shaming is a real thing so yes.

[DocWatts]

In a strict sense no; it's a developmental model used to contextualize why people have the worldviews they do, how different worldviews relate to one another, and how worldviews change over time.  A rough analogy might be something like the Hegelian Dialectic or Darwin's Theory of Evolution, in that all three are systemic ways of examining change over time for living systems. But because all three are very broad and have vast implications, they can still be used to provide structural support for various ideologies and worldviews, even if the models themselves are not ideologies.

For example, the Theory of Evolution is not an ideology; at the same time it does end up being used to provide a sort of foundation for Modernist ideologies like scientism and new atheism (which couldn't exist without it). The Hegelian Dialectic, which proposes that new ideas result from a synthesis of two opposing thought systems being in tension with one another, is also not an ideology in the strict sense of the word. But it was used as a starting point for Karl Marx in the creation of his ideology.

And in a similar way, I do think that insights from developmental models like Spiral Dynamics are being used to construct a newly emerging paradigm (or meta-ideology) that places itself in opposition to both postmodernism and modernism : metamodernism.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/theory-knowledge/202004/what-is-metamodernism

Edited January 19, 2021 by DocWatts

[peanutspathtotruth]

34 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Spiral stage shaming is a real thing so yes.

That is SO green of you to say! 

[Rilles]

9 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Spiral stage shaming is a real thing so yes.

Lol, youre too Beige/Purple to understand. 

[StarStruck]

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

Lol, youre too Beige/Purple to understand. 

 

10 hours ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

That is SO green of you to say! 

So which stage are you then?

[Gesundheit]

 

[peanutspathtotruth]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

So which stage are you then?

52,5% yellow, 30,5% turquoise and the rest purple. My spiral dynamics overall score is 9843, my consciousness level is 754 and my high score in a peak experience is ?️. 

You want a spiral battle? We can also trade skills if you want. ?

[Evil Raccoon]

You can turn everything into an ideology.

[StarStruck]

2 hours ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

52,5% yellow, 30,5% turquoise and the rest purple. My spiral dynamics overall score is 9843, my consciousness level is 754 and my high score in a peak experience is ?️. 

You want a spiral battle? We can also trade skills if you want. ?

I'm a half hippie and a half frustrated success chaser so you won.

[DocWatts]

I read a handful of books on Developmental Psychology , so guess I'm what's known as 'Spiral Wizard' now. Do they send you your pointy hat and staff, or do you have to go somewhere to collect them? 

Edited January 20, 2021 by DocWatts

[DocWatts]

Also, what I picture whenever someone mentions  Turquoise in relation to themselves:

[UDT]

7 hours ago, DocWatts said:

Also, what I picture whenever someone mentions  Turquoise in relation to themselves:

Hahaha lmao

Does turqoise have to be ripped no? 

I think one of the biggest traps almost everyone here falls into is that we escape reality into being spiritual as if the "ordinary" folk is below you not getting your genius - yet you are nowhere. Its an endless circle jerk of who is right - no one will be right. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

23 minutes ago, UDT said:

Does turqoise have to be ripped no? 

In truth you may only enter green when you're ripped, vegan and use natural skin care products, these TV shows are so unrealistic!

23 minutes ago, UDT said:

I think one of the biggest traps almost everyone here falls into is that we escape reality into being spiritual as if the "ordinary" folk is below you not getting your genius - yet you are nowhere. Its an endless circle jerk of who is right - no one will be right. 

Good point! It's a bit more nuanced than that though I would say, because from a certain perspective it is true that one is more developed than someone else, and someone else may be more developed than oneself. The question is: what do you make of that? Is it another identity structure you fall into that traps you in separation? That of course leads to arrogance, and I feel like that is something we all have to go through - and hopefully come out with a mature humility. From another perspective though, it's important to know where you are and what you can do with it for the whole of reality. From this view, it's also about responsibility. A sage might(!) be more useful directing his/her energy toward giving love than just bathing in it him/herself.

Edited January 20, 2021 by peanutspathtotruth

[DocWatts]

9 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

In truth you may only enter green when you're ripped, vegan and use natural skin care products, these TV shows are so unrealistic!

Good point! It's a bit more nuanced than that though I would say, because from a certain perspective it is true that one is more developed than someone else, and someone else may be more developed than oneself. The question is: what do you make of that? Is it another identity structure you fall into that traps you in separation? That of course leads to arrogance, and I feel like that is something we all have to go through - and hopefully come out with a mature humility. From another perspective though, it's important to know where you are and what you can do with it for the whole of reality. From this view, it's also about responsibility. A sage might(!) be more useful directing his/her energy toward giving love than just bathing in it him/herself.

 Man bun or pony tail required for entry into Green as well, not sure what the female equivalent of that is.

Returning to being at least half serious though, there's good reason to doubt that Turquoise is even a thing yet. Not because individuals who are of a depth and complexity above Yellow don't exist, but more because the cultural paradigm for it doesn't exist at this point of time. I think it's more a case of rare individuals reaching a level of depth and complexity beyond Yellow, rather than Turquoise being a cultural force in any real sense.

Think about it; for Turquoise to be a value system, it would come about as a response to the deficiencies of the Yellow value meme. But Yellow is still in its embryonic state, and the long term effects the Yellow meme will have on society remains to be seen. That would be like postmodernism popping up in the 16th or 17th Century, before the societal implications of Enlightenment values became evident.

 

[peanutspathtotruth]

@DocWatts Good points, it's really important to see it in context with the whole system. Imagine the potential of turquoise when it's elevated by turquoise all around, embedded in society. And then imagine what levels of consciousness, understanding and creativity those few individuals have that go even further than the mass. It truly looks like there is no end in sight. Deeper and deeper into infinity and its creative powers. Well, let's talk again in a later life in 1000000 years or so ?

[UDT]

Before we reach mainstream yellow - we have created artificial intelligence which is by itself mainstream yellow, so we are going to be outsourced.

We are largely products of biological evolution and now the mind evolution is dominant, with which our body can't hold speed with. 

[DocWatts]

11 minutes ago, UDT said:

Before we reach mainstream yellow - we have created artificial intelligence which is by itself mainstream yellow, so we are going to be outsourced.

We are largely products of biological evolution and now the mind evolution is dominant, with which our body can't hold speed with. 

Just my perspective, but I think trying to map Artificial Intelligence onto any sort of human developmental model is likely to be highly counterproductive. Even though it sometimes gets analogized this way, our minds are not computers, and it's highly likely that computer intelligence will develop in a very different way to biological organisms.

It's also not entire clear whether Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) is even possible; it's development seems highly unlikely in the near future considering we don't really have a good understanding of how biological consciousness develops. We haven't solved the mind-body problem, and it's possible we never will.

What seems more likely is that the future will consist of a much greater proliferation of low level, highly specialized AI built for particular tasks, and that this will have enormous impacts on the economy and on society.