Consept

Is it selfish not to take the covid vaccine?

51 posts in this topic

Trying to write more, just some thoughts on this subject - 

 

Is it selfish to not want to take a vaccine?

 

When history is read in 100 years 2020 will stand out for all the wrong reasons, whatever anyones achieved this year will pale in comparison to the Covid 19 virus. It has now claimed over 1.6 million lives and changed how we all see the world, the effects of it as I’m writing this at the end of 2020, have yet to fully be seen, both in terms of health and society. 

 

Daily deaths continue to rise with no clear way out. Various measures have been employed including lockdowns, face masks and social distancing. Many dispute these measures, from a mild perspective of just wanting to get back to normal to the extreme covid is a hoax and we shouldn’t listen to the government at all. 

 

A vaccine has been recently approved, this would be a major step in reducing cases and ultimately saving lives and getting life back to some semblance of normality if it works as proposed. The take up right has to be fairly high for it to be effective, the issue is that many are hesitant about taking the vaccine, a recent Oxford University survey showed 12% strongly hesitant and 16% unsure. 

 

Now the question i want to consider in this piece is whether it is a selfish action to not get this vaccine. First of all i would like to quickly define what a selfish action would be, a selfish action according to the dictionary term, is an action or motive that lacks consideration for others and is concerned chiefly with ones own personal profit or pleasure, also similar to egocentric. The opposite of that is selfless which is an action or person more concerned with the needs and wishes of others than with ones own. 

 

So if we take something like the decision for a person to fight for the army and go to war, this can both be selfish and selfless depending on the circumstance. If they decide not to go it could be selfish because the reason they’re not going is self preservation, they know they are likely to die and fearfully they avoid it despite others fighting and dying for their country. However it could also be self less as maybe they dont want to be part of an invasion or attack on another country, they may even protest against others going to war. If they do decide to go to war it could be selfish in that they’re doing it for money or status or it could be selfless in that they want to defend their country. It really comes down to the intent and the level of consciousness of the individual, if they are generally an egocentric person and think in those terms it will be more likely that whatever they choose is because of selfish reasons and that follows for ethnocentric and worldcentric. 

 

Another factor is fear, giving into fear is a selfish act, although it might feel to the person that it is valid reason. The idea of a selfless act would be to complete the action irrespective of how fearful you are as you realise its not about you. Fear is a very strong emotion and can affect perception of a given situation. 

 

In the case of covid 19 vaccine there is a lot of fear on both sides, there are some that are fearful of not having the vaccine in circulation and some that are fearful of taking the vaccine. The arguments against taking the vaccine are that its claimed it hasn’t been tested, its been rushed out, the government can’t be trusted and may have nefarious intentions. So the question is are these rational fears and is opting out and convincing others to do likewise selfless or selfish? Im not going to debunk each point but there are reasonable explanations for all the points but i want to look at it from a different angle. Although its hard to quantify as there aren’t any stats, i would say a lot of people if they are seriously ill or come down with some sort of life threatening disease would most likely take whatever medication is offered to them. I myself have a condition called ulcerative colitis and am part of a group of people with similar condition on facebook, every person on that group has taken medication, in most cases experimental and new medication in which it hasn’t been on the market for decades and so is impossible to know for certain the long term effects. Ulcerative colitis may not kill you but it can make your life terrible and so many will take any medication that may help. Now taking this medication is for the self but its not selfish as it doesn’t affect others in any tangible way. However when asked whether they would take the vaccine a lot of my fellow UC group members said they would decline. 

 

Now if it was just for them and their specific condition there was no problem taking an untested medication, if it is for others there’s a big problem and they would decline. This is not limited to them, they’re not different from anyone else put in that situation, most people if it came down to it and it was for them and their health would definitely take any medication given to them, some of those same people would decline a vaccine that helped people other than themselves. I understand some people may actually be allergic to the ingredients of the vaccine or may have a particular illness in which it maybe dangerous, in these cases there is no need for unnecessary risk or sacrifice. But for the majority the vaccine has been tested and has not caused any deaths or serious injury. So in this context i would say it is a selfish act not to take the vaccine. 

 

There will be people saying that there are legitimate reasons not to take it, that might be the case but the intention behind that is to avoid taking it, its not to weigh up all the scientific information, studies, testing as well as the fact that over 1.6 million people have died so far, its really looking at self preservation. Even if the argument is vaccines are dangerous and we’re trying to stop others from taking it, you would have to prove that vaccines are more dangerous than the disease for it to be a selfless act in that the person has seen something that everyones missed, this of course is not the case. The core fear behind it is taking a medicine that is not necessary for that person in an individual sense and that there is a risk taken that is not needed, but that is the point in terms of bing selfless, you’re taking a risk so that others may potentially benefit. 

 

This isn’t to say that its impossible that a government could do nefarious things, of course we’ve seen this before with the Tuskegee tests on African Americans in the 30s. However now we live in the information age, which of course means there could be too much information to decipher, but the information is there in terms of everything that’s been done with the covid 19 vaccine, if someone is concerned about it they can find out everything they need to, but it would be very important to have critical thinking and really question what your intention is in researching, is it driven by fear and distrust or are you just trying to find out the reality of the situation. Governments are somewhat responsible for the distrust that is laid at their door, the way politics has been played has led to many not trusting the system and so when something like a pandemic happens people can look back at what the government have done and have a sufficient target of their fear. 

 

There is a power in the word ‘selfish’ for many it is an insult that strikes to our core, probably a result of some unconscious, psychological programming from our parents when they tried to get us to share as a child and berated us with the word selfish if we didn’t comply. Now as older people we take exception to being described in such a way and we do anything to avoid that description of us being valid, we attack the person who labeled us as that, we try to explain how our actions weren’t at all selfish and the accuser just doesn’t get the situation. When looking at levels of consciousness an egocentric outlook is a natural stage of development and must be gone through to then transcend it, there is a negative connotation but that is a trap, when you are not able to see your own selfish actions you are doomed to stay within that perspective and constantly defend the fact that you’re not egocentric. The very action of defending an egocentric action is in itself an egocentric action, you don’t want to look bad. Does that mean you have to take the vaccine? No of course not, but you should try to acknowledge that this is an egocentric action, if you can be fully conscious of the actions you take at some point you will raise you’re level of consciousness automatically. 

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Obviously it's selfish. But more importantly it's unstrategic because your chances of getting harmed by Covid are higher than getting harmed by its vaccine. By refusing the vaccine your risks actually increase.

So as usual, selfishness and fear tends to backfire.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Just now, Persipnei said:

Is it not selfish to expect everyone to get the vaccine so you can feel safe?

Not at all. Because it's important that not only you but everyone stays safe. 

So taking the vaccine is not just for the person but also for others. 

Millions of lives saved if everyone takes the vaccine. 

Imagine if some groups didn't take it and millions suffered because of it? How selfish would it be for these groups to have resisted taking the vaccine? 

 


Create your own life system. 

Preety preety

And then my dear, you can take a bath in suds. 

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13 minutes ago, Persipnei said:

Is it not selfish to expect everyone to get the vaccine so you can feel safe?

Not to pounce on you, but we're talking from the point of view of someone who, through fear or otherwise believes that the virus wont affect them, so really we're asking for a somewhat selfless act in that theres minimal risk to the person but lets say theres some and by taking the vaccine it can have a positive effect in terms of others being less likely to be infected. As Leo says it also will affect them in the long run, either in terms of the economy or them getting it or someone close to them getting it. 

So a lot of the people who will get it or expect others to get it is not necessarily out of fear, they may also think it wont affect them directly but theyre taking it despite whatever risk there is because they know everyone is better off if the virus is no longer around. Those that are scared are probably those that are vulnerable or those that may go bankrupt if things dont get back to normal, you can call that selfish but i would say their survival is a real risk at least a lot more than the side effects of the vaccine. So if we were to weigh it up, i think their fear of their survival makes a lot more sense and also does not significantly affect others, so in that way its along the lines of expecting others to sneeze into a tissue instead of the air when in a confined public area. 

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4 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Why are vaccine companies immune from lawsuits pertaining to harm that a vaccine may cause? 

Because vaccines are necessary for society to function and pharmaceutical companies are not going to continue doing things which are not profitable for them without incentives.

Every drug has some % of side-effects. The difference is, no drug other than a vaccine is mandated for 100s of millions of people by the government. When you have a sample size of 100 million+, there will be some bad cases.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because vaccines are necessary for society to function

Do you apply this same logic to Big Pharma and their meds? 


Create your own life system. 

Preety preety

And then my dear, you can take a bath in suds. 

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3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Do you apply this same logic to Big Pharma and their meds? 

Their meds are not mandated by government for 100 million+ people.

Vaccines are not standard meds. And you cannot sue Big Pharma for normal side-effects to their drugs. You can only sue them for willful malfeasance. If you take some drug and it causes your eyes to bleed, but that's considered a known side-effect, you can't sue for that.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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23 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Why are vaccine companies immune from lawsuits pertaining to harm that a vaccine may cause? 

To add to what Leo said, vaccine companies are immune but its the government that picks up the liability if something goes wrong for you, in which case you can claim money if your complaint is upheld. This is very necessary to do it this way otherwise pharma will stop making vaccines, they did want to stop in the 80s as it wasnt cost effective considering the production cost, testing and the fact that you only give one shot and then thats it, traditional medicine that you have to take regularly is much more profitable, in fact vaccines only make up about 2-3% of pharma profits in the US, total amount is actually less than alternative medicines. So if you add on even 0.001% of cases where something might go wrong its pretty much impossible to make it worth their while, hence the government brought in the Vaccine Injury Court - https://time.com/3995062/vaccine-injury-court-truth/

25 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Do you apply this same logic to Big Pharma and their meds? 

Meds can be useful but obviously there are huge incentives to keep people on drugs or to prescribe certain drugs and a lot of the time they dont actually have that much effect, there are of course drugs that are very useful and save lives. I think its more of an issue in places like America where the industry is more commercialised, Im from the UK and i was actually shocked at how many ads for meds they have when a visited the US a couple of years ago, in the UK the most youd see is an ad for cough syrup or parcetomol but in the states it was like anxiety tablets and all types of meds. There are also many instances of pharma companies buttering up doctors to prescribe certain drugs, all these are problems of capitalism invading public health. There would need to be pharma companies but it would need to be much more balanced than what is currently happening in the US

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3 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Why are vaccine companies immune from lawsuits pertaining to harm that a vaccine may cause? 

This is only tangentially related, but I'm curious about how many people will blame any health issues that occur to them on the vaccine after they get it. Considering how large-scale the vaccination effort will be I won't be surprised if the number is massive. Immunity from lawsuits will at the very least filter out the majority of deluded people blaming the vaccine for causing health issues that are completely unrelated which they would have dealt with anyway.

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2 minutes ago, eggopm3 said:

This is only tangentially related, but I'm curious about how many people will blame any health issues that occur to them on the vaccine after they get it. Considering how large-scale the vaccination effort will be I won't be surprised if the number is massive. Immunity from lawsuits will at the very least filter out the majority of deluded people blaming the vaccine for causing health issues that are completely unrelated which they would have dealt with anyway.

I also imagine that blaming health issues on the vaccine will be common. In addition to the large scale of the vaccination, there is also a large scale anti-van on social media. I imagine there will be lots of grifters, conspiracy theories, misinformation and entire networks on social media blaming health issues on the vaccine. There will be tons of conspiracies about how the Biden administration, MSM and Bill Gates are suppressing “facts” about vaccine side effects. Unfortunately, this will create it’s own psychosomatic health issues. 

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17 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I also imagine that blaming health issues on the vaccine will be common. In addition to the large scale of the vaccination, there is also a large scale anti-van on social media. I imagine there will be lots of grifters, conspiracy theories, misinformation and entire networks on social media blaming health issues on the vaccine. There will be tons of conspiracies about how the Biden administration, MSM and Bill Gates are suppressing “facts” about vaccine side effects. Unfortunately, this will create it’s own psychosomatic health issues. 

Yeah this is actually a big problem as well, the whole vaccine link to autism is based on parents blaming vaccines that their kids are autistic, once this is considered a thing it leaves the connection there in peoples minds. 

There are lots of grifters, specifically in the alternative medicine sector who see this as a gap in the market in which they can stoke up distrust of modern medicine and offer themselves as an alternative. One example is Dr Buttar who jumped on the whole covid hoax thing and boosted up his social numbers and getting paid to speak on channels and at events as well as promote his alternative treatments. This clip below is of him treating a girl a few years ago, the girl was forwarded to him from an anti vax organisation, if you want actual conspiracies, sometimes look at those pointing the fingers. The clip is hilarious btw 

 

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Survival is selfish, when you avoid the vaccine because the possible future harmfuls efects are unknow you're looking for your own survival, and it's ok, this is human nature.

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8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Quote

your chances of getting harmed by Covid are higher than getting harmed by its vaccine. By refusing the vaccine your risks actually increase.

 

There's absolutely no way to know that by now.

Edited by AlterEgo

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6 hours ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

Survival is selfish, when you avoid the vaccine because the possible future harmfuls efects are unknow you're looking for your own survival, and it's ok, this is human nature.

Youre right it is human nature, but egocentric is a lower level of consciousness, there will be times when it is appropriate to drop down to this level when your survival is really under threat. What is happening here is survival is under threat for a lot of people 1.6 million so far, but fear of, as you say an unknown in which after multiple tests no one has died and all the scientists and experts say that it wont kill anyone, has overided peoples ability to weigh things up accurately and led to people dropping to egocentrism. Same thing happened with people panic buying at the start of the pandemic, there was plenty of food for everyone but fear of the unknwon took them deep into egocentric behavior 

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Let me start by saying I don't want to be the pro- or anti-vaxxer. I'm just talking about the upcoming Covid vaccine.

 

I see a lot of people in this thread who are really certain that vaccines are good for mankind. I'm not anti-vaxxer, but I won't pollute my body for a disease that my body can overcome naturally. Am I selfish for that? I guess. But if I am, then people who expect others to vax because they don't feel safe are also selfish, so I shouldn't feel bad about it, I guess :-)

Call me a conspiracy nut if you want, but I ain't trusting governments and big pharma after the fear-campaign they introduced this year. Yes, people die, they have so for at least 200,000 years. Most people who died of Covid were very old or already quite sick (at least where I live), they would have died from a normal flue or maybe even from a common cold.

That said, I have barely left my house this year, mostly because people behave like they are complete psychos since March and I don't need that around me. If I have no physical contact, I won't need that vaccine, I guess.

I really hope I'm wrong in the no-trusting-department or we are gonna see a lot of misery in the coming years because of that wonderous vaccine.

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2 hours ago, Persipnei said:

Let me start by saying I don't want to be the pro- or anti-vaxxer. I'm just talking about the upcoming Covid vaccine.

 

I see a lot of people in this thread who are really certain that vaccines are good for mankind. I'm not anti-vaxxer, but I won't pollute my body for a disease that my body can overcome naturally. Am I selfish for that? I guess. But if I am, then people who expect others to vax because they don't feel safe are also selfish, so I shouldn't feel bad about it, I guess :-)

Call me a conspiracy nut if you want, but I ain't trusting governments and big pharma after the fear-campaign they introduced this year. Yes, people die, they have so for at least 200,000 years. Most people who died of Covid were very old or already quite sick (at least where I live), they would have died from a normal flue or maybe even from a common cold.

That said, I have barely left my house this year, mostly because people behave like they are complete psychos since March and I don't need that around me. If I have no physical contact, I won't need that vaccine, I guess.

I really hope I'm wrong in the no-trusting-department or we are gonna see a lot of misery in the coming years because of that wonderous vaccine.

Again dont take selfish as an insult as i mentioned in the piece its merely an observation. If you watch what your mind does and what youve written, everything is to justify you not wanted to have some sort of inconvenience in order to potentially save lives, youve even gone as far as to say 'people die', in which case i could switch that back on you and say you shouldnt have a problem taking in it because worst case someone will die and well people die anyway. 

Its not that you should trust pharma and governments whole heartedly but you have to weigh up whats more likely a worse outcome, on one hand a disease that has killed 1.6 million people already, youre argument is that most of those lives arent important because theyre old or sick anyway. On the other hand a vaccine that has been tested and over 100,000 people have taken without anyone dying or becoming seriously ill after taking and which could save loss of life going forward. Even if it doesnt work the intention by creating and public taking it is somewhat selfless.

Also think, lucky for you youre probably quite healthy, but lets say you had underlying health conditions that didnt affect your life but damaged your immune system, most likely you would think it was selfish for people not to take the vaccine as this will risk your life, if you have an egocentric outlook on the healthy side, no doubt youd have one on the underlying condition side and most likely youd be quite angry at those that refused to take it because of fear or whatever other reason. 

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I don't want to justify. Was just saying my 2 cents on the topic. I decided for myself I won't take it mostly because there is such a big pressure coming from our "leaders". I am aware that my decision is based on certain information, but so is the decision of the people who want to take it. One is not more valuable or true than the other. I watched my mind, I'd appreciate if you watched yours too. Most people have been brainwashed by media in the last 9 months with the "stay safe", "all together against covid", and other slogans.

Other years there is the seasonal flu who makes about the same amount of victims. There are diseases and people die. I didn't say their lives are not important, but I do think humanity has a very unhealthy way of looking at death and we should realize that this incarnation is mortal. I actually had repiratory problems when I was young, so I am at risk if I get it, but I'm willing to take the risk. If it is my time, I will look death in the eyes, if it is not, I'll be stronger after I get sick. I definately prefer to die from a disease than get sick from a vaccine.

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