Meditation Vs. Psychedelics: The Power Of Your Mind

[r0ckyreed]

I am against using psychedelics for personal growth because the whole notion is backwards to me. Enlightenment is found within you, not found in a drug or acid trip. Love is fully accepting this present moment as it is. I love this Now so much right now, and I have no desire to change my experience of this moment. To me, this is Enlightenment. It is when you are fully aware of your connection to all of life and you are high on life itself! There is no short cut to enlightenment. I believe psychedelics can create mystical experiences, but don’t confuse it with enlightenment because that is Truth-Realization. If you cannot realize the truth right now, without taking any drugs, then how can you ever desire this experience right now? Why do you want to change this experience? Instead, meditate and fully accept this experience because our whole lives are based on the notion of changing experience. Being with our selves is very hard and many people cannot BE with themselves purely. Instead, people escape being with themselves by using substances. I think Sadhguru makes a very good point in this regard because life is purely magical! You don’t need to change your experience to see the Magic of life. Also, if somehow psychedelics DO create Enlightenment (which I already said “don’t confuse enlightenment with mystical experience), then to me, this would rob the specialness of enlightenment. Change your state of Consciousness from WITHIN is the key to life. If you think you need a substance to get their “quicker,” I think you may be missing out on the journey. Because like Life, enlightenment should be treated like a hero’s journey. There is no rush to be enlightened. Enjoy this life, contemplate, meditate, and BE and realize that you are the magic of life. If you think you have to change your experience with external things, you got it wrong because Nirvana and the divinity of life comes from within. My personal opinion is that if I use drugs to get into a mystical experience, that is fine, that is fine, but don’t confuse it with enlightenment. In fact, if it is the mystical experience that you are seeking, you don’t need drugs to do it. I see drugs as “cheating” because the goal for me is not how fast it takes for me to be enlightened, but being Truth-realized in every waking moment of my life. The goal of my life is to Love this moment purely as it is. Maybe psychedelics may help you have more love, but the goal is to go through the battles and suffering it takes to Love life. Escaping your current suffering doesn’t grow you. Love is about embracing your own suffering because if you only Love the things that serve you, it isn’t really love. Rather true love to me is loving the battle and journey of personal transformation and this is what meditation offers. Because meditation is all about LOVING the NOW as it is with no desire to change it.

BE with yourself. If you want to use substances, make sure you are doing it for the right reasons. Ask yourself: Do I currently Accept the Now as it is? Why do I want to change myself externally? Will changing myself externally help me change myself internally? Maybe. I think psychedelics May help people love this moment more, but what does this teach you? What using substances means to me is that “This moment and myself are not enough right now.” The right reason for using psychedelics is if “you feel Love and acceptance that this moment is enough.” If you feel that this moment is enough, then psychedelics can be used as another facet of exploring and sharing your love for this moment. The key is to not use them as an escape, but to rather use them as a way to explore the current love for reality that you already have. 

anyways, that’s what I think. Personally for me, I prefer to be high on Life, not on drugs and this is what I told my friends who tried to peer pressure me into drugs. If you think you need a substance to change your experience, then consider that your experience is already low to begin with. Sadhguru here explains what I am talking about:
 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Moksha]

People like Leo understand the difference between psychedelic realizations and the actual integration of those realizations in your life. Regardless of what wakes you up, you still get to trudge the hero's journey.

[Rigel]

Meditation + Psychedelics + anything that works

Edited October 31, 2020 by Rigel

[Grateful Dead]

I dont think Sadhguru is qualified to talk about psychedelics. Whenever someone asks him about it he starts talking about weed and how he is always stoned

However he even said in this video that it is useful to experience it but the problem is most people get addicted to it lol

[Forestluv]

@r0ckyreed Ime, using psychedelics as an escape, shortcut or developing dependency can be problematic at a personal level. For example, when I first started using psychedelics, it was like they elevated me to higher states of consciousness and gave me super powers. This wasn’t simply a subjective experience. I had been on a 100% substance-free spiritual journey for 20+ years. People at my sangha had no idea I started using psychedelics - within months, high level practitioners and monks were asking me :”Wow, what happened to you?” Your practice has taken off”. I literally made many years of spiritual progress in weeks - and not by my standards - by the standards of high level teachers and monks. The dynamics completely changed. It was like I had become fluent in the language and was at the same level they were.

You seem to suggest that psychedelics are mystical, yet not the “real thing” in terms of sober constructs of enlightenment. That has not been my experience at all. And again, not simply by my subjective constructs of enlightenment - by the enlightenment constructs of life-long spiritual practitioners that teach at spiritual centers and lead spiritual retreats. Reducing psychedelics as simply mystical experiences is similar to those that call psychedelics “altered states of consciousness” or “illusions” - and not the “real” thing. There is some truth to this, yet it’s also contracted. It’s along the lines of Ram Dass’s perspective. 

The high level practitioners and teachers at my spiritual sangha were telling me that “I got it”. As I spoke about transcendence, ego, nonduality - they nodded their heads “yes”. Yet a funny thing happened when I told them psychedelics helped reveal these insights. All of a sudden, I no longer “got it”. All of a sudden, I was speaking about psychedelic-induced illusions that weren’t true enlightenment. All of a sudden, they stopped nodding their heads “yes” when I spoke and started shaking their heads “no” when I spoke. 

[Gesundheit]

20 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@r0ckyreed Ime, using psychedelics as an escape, shortcut or developing dependency can be problematic at a personal level. For example, when I first started using psychedelics, it was like they elevated me to higher states of consciousness and gave me super powers. This wasn’t simply a subjective experience. I had been on a 100% substance-free spiritual journey for 20+ years. People at my sangha had no idea I started using psychedelics - within months, high level practitioners and monks were asking me :”Wow, what happened to you?” Your practice has taken off”. I literally made many years of spiritual progress in weeks - and not by my standards - by the standards of high level teachers and monks. The dynamics completely changed. It was like I had become fluent in the language and was at the same level they were.

You seem to suggest that psychedelics are mystical, yet not the “real thing” in terms of sober constructs of enlightenment. That has not been my experience at all. And again, not simply by my subjective constructs of enlightenment - by the enlightenment constructs of life-long spiritual practitioners that teach at spiritual centers and lead spiritual retreats. Reducing psychedelics as simply mystical experiences is similar to those that call psychedelics “altered states of consciousness” or “illusions” - and not the “real” thing. There is some truth to this, yet it’s also contracted. It’s along the lines of Ram Dass’s perspective. 

The high level practitioners and teachers at my spiritual sangha were telling me that “I got it”. As I spoke about transcendence, ego, nonduality - they nodded their heads “yes”. Yet a funny thing happened when I told them psychedelics helped reveal these insights. All of a sudden, I no longer “got it”. All of a sudden, I was speaking about psychedelic-induced illusions that weren’t true enlightenment. All of a sudden, they stopped nodding their heads “yes” when I spoke and started shaking their heads “no” when I spoke. 

Didn't they tell you cheats aren't allowed in their game? 

[Shin]

30 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@r0ckyreed Ime, using psychedelics as an escape, shortcut or developing dependency can be problematic at a personal level. For example, when I first started using psychedelics, it was like they elevated me to higher states of consciousness and gave me super powers. This wasn’t simply a subjective experience. I had been on a 100% substance-free spiritual journey for 20+ years. People at my sangha had no idea I started using psychedelics - within months, high level practitioners and monks were asking me :”Wow, what happened to you?” Your practice has taken off”. I literally made many years of spiritual progress in weeks - and not by my standards - by the standards of high level teachers and monks. The dynamics completely changed. It was like I had become fluent in the language and was at the same level they were.

You seem to suggest that psychedelics are mystical, yet not the “real thing” in terms of sober constructs of enlightenment. That has not been my experience at all. And again, not simply by my subjective constructs of enlightenment - by the enlightenment constructs of life-long spiritual practitioners that teach at spiritual centers and lead spiritual retreats. Reducing psychedelics as simply mystical experiences is similar to those that call psychedelics “altered states of consciousness” or “illusions” - and not the “real” thing. There is some truth to this, yet it’s also contracted. It’s along the lines of Ram Dass’s perspective. 

The high level practitioners and teachers at my spiritual sangha were telling me that “I got it”. As I spoke about transcendence, ego, nonduality - they nodded their heads “yes”. Yet a funny thing happened when I told them psychedelics helped reveal these insights. All of a sudden, I no longer “got it”. All of a sudden, I was speaking about psychedelic-induced illusions that weren’t true enlightenment. All of a sudden, they stopped nodding their heads “yes” when I spoke and started shaking their heads “no” when I spoke. 

The power of dogma is strong in Buddhism

The irony

[Guest SirVladimir]

@Forestluv Interesting & exemplary story. Have they not harnessed enough truth over the years to deconstruct the notion of psychedelics? They seem to me like dream characters believing these substances are material, real; separate from the dream. Holding a grudge against them causes a belief within the mind; a dependency from the reversed side of the argument. Damn NPCs...

[Moksha]

I don't need to meditate to be. Meditation is a practice, and you can be while meditating, but being doesn't require anything outside of itself.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Moksha

[Consilience]

Taking psychedelics will put all your fantasies of loving Now to the test. When your reality is crumbling before your eyes, how grounded and enduring is your love for Now?

I don't view them as a means to enlightenment, but I respect their capacity to keep me honest about how far Ive come. How can I claim to have reached enlightenment if I become terrified on acid or am suffering through insanity on mushrooms? A real master wouldn’t be phased at all. 

I agree though that you cannot escape the sober work though. Id recommend being more holistic with your thinking OP. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Consilience

[Gesundheit]

@r0ckyreed Just a little reminder; love is an illusion and a sign of delusion. Regardless of how you arrive at it, you're still not enlightened yet.

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Mikael89 said:

You just swap psychedelics for the activity of meditation. You're not accepting whatever is if you have to escape into doing meditation.

You do want to change your experience, since you are obsessed about meditating.

Meditation isn’t an escape Lol! Everything else that you do is an escape! Meditation is purely BEING in this MOMENT. This is backwards. Meditation isn’t about changing your experience. It is about accepting what already is. If you think it’s different, you are not meditating. 
 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Shin]

6 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation

"Meditation is a practice where an individual uses a technique – such as mindfulness, or focusing the mind on a particular object, thought, or activity – to train attention and awareness, and achieve a mentally clear and emotionally calm and stable state."

That's the technique as it is defined.

But the result of using the technique is that you will naturally be conscious outside of the meditation.

Some people call that also meditation, because in the end, when you sit and just be, it's not different than just being when you walk or talk to someone.

[Moksha]

17 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@r0ckyreed Just a little reminder; love is an illusion and a sign of delusion. Regardless of how you arrive at it, you're still not enlightened yet.

Love is seeing through the delusion and realizing that there are no boundaries. Love your neighbor as you love yourself, because your neighbor is yourself.

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, acidgoofy said:

However he even said in this video that it is useful to experience it but the problem is most people get addicted to it lol

That’s what I was trying to get at.

1 hour ago, acidgoofy said:

dont think Sadhguru is qualified to talk about psychedelics

 

1 hour ago, John Lula said:

Not a qualified person.

“Qualified” is a credibility that you are projecting onto others. Qualified is an illusion. Who is more qualified at understanding consciousness than you?

Sadhguru is talking about his experiences and nobody is more qualified on Sadhgurus experience than Sadhguru. 
 

Watch Leo’s video called Authority. 

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

@r0ckyreed Ime, using psychedelics as an escape, shortcut or developing dependency can be problematic at a personal level. For example, when I first started using psychedelics, it was like they elevated me to higher states of consciousness and gave me super powers. This wasn’t simply a subjective experience. I had been on a 100% substance-free spiritual journey for 20+ years. People at my sangha had no idea I started using psychedelics - within months, high level practitioners and monks were asking me :”Wow, what happened to you?” Your practice has taken off”. I literally made many years of spiritual progress in weeks - and not by my standards - by the standards of high level teachers and monks. The dynamics completely changed. It was like I had become fluent in the language and was at the same level they were.

You seem to suggest that psychedelics are mystical, yet not the “real thing” in terms of sober constructs of enlightenment. That has not been my experience at all. And again, not simply by my subjective constructs of enlightenment - by the enlightenment constructs of life-long spiritual practitioners that teach at spiritual centers and lead spiritual retreats. Reducing psychedelics as simply mystical experiences is similar to those that call psychedelics “altered states of consciousness” or “illusions” - and not the “real” thing. There is some truth to this, yet it’s also contracted. It’s along the lines of Ram Dass’s perspective. 

The high level practitioners and teachers at my spiritual sangha were telling me that “I got it”. As I spoke about transcendence, ego, nonduality - they nodded their heads “yes”. Yet a funny thing happened when I told them psychedelics helped reveal these insights. All of a sudden, I no longer “got it”. All of a sudden, I was speaking about psychedelic-induced illusions that weren’t true enlightenment. All of a sudden, they stopped nodding their heads “yes” when I spoke and started shaking their heads “no” when I spoke. 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I guess psychedelics may help expand the mind, but I would really like to raise my state from myself rather than from a plant. But I will consider your experience and maybe use psychedelics as a method in the future. I am basically using Iron Mans Logic when he tells Spider-Man “if you are nothing without the suit, then it doesn’t belong to you.” I will try to keep my mind open though. Thank you! So I guess I will keep practicing meditation and then once I feel like I am ready, I may explore psychedelics.

 

23 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Taking psychedelics will put all your fantasies of loving Now to the test. When your reality is crumbling before your eyes, how grounded and enduring is your love for Now?

That’s a good point. 

 

Meditation to me is as simple as listening to God. All meditation is, is just being aligned with the Eternal Now. It is being in Actuality. If meditation isn’t in actuality, it’s not meditating.
 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Shin]

4 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

I'm conscious right now, and I'm not meditating.

I sit and just be, and it's not different than being when I walk or talk to someone.

Yes

Don't get hung up on the terminology, there is as many definitions as people, and most of them don't use the exact definition as it is written on wikipedia or other influential dictionary.

It's actually one of the main issue in psychology, cause there is so many different meaning for so many terms, because there is so many different sub categories of psychology.

And that's just psychology, I'm not even talking about other discipline lol

Edited October 31, 2020 by Shin

[r0ckyreed]

5 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

I'm conscious right now, and I'm not meditating.

I sit and just be, and it's not different than being when I walk or talk to someone.

Precisely! You don’t need to sit to meditate. If you are in Actuality, you are meditating. You can do traditional sitting meditation or you can meditate while you run. Osho explains it perfectly when he says that concentration is not meditation because concentration can be disturbed, but meditation cannot. Meditation is becoming the watcher. That’s it. 
 

If you are fully present right now, conscious without judgment then you are meditating. When you are arguing with someone, you can meditate by observing your emotions nonjudgmentally and then let them go. Don’t think that there is formal meditation and then the rest of the world. That’s duality. Integrating meditation with everything you do is key.

Edited October 31, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Shin]

5 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Precisely! You don’t need to sit to meditate. If you are in Actuality, you are meditating. You can do traditional sitting meditation or you can meditate while you run. Osho explains it perfectly when he says that concentration is not meditation because concentration can be disturbed, but meditation cannot. Meditation is becoming the watcher. That’s it. 
 

If you are fully present right now, conscious without judgment then you are meditating. When you are arguing with someone, you can meditate by observing your emotions nonjudgmentally and then let them go. Don’t think that there is formal meditation and then the rest of the world. That’s duality. Integrating meditation with everything you do is key.

Concentration meditation is still very helpful to still the mind.

You can be very conscious, but still with a very messy mind, which can be translated by not being able to do one activity at a time without distracting yourself by something else.

For example I had a period not so long ago where I had to check the forum or something else every 5 minutes, while still being conscious.

Too much activities that release easy and fast dopamine will modify the brain to be scattered like that, it's different than being unconscious.

 

[r0ckyreed]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

What you said doesn't change anything, what you are talking about is still the practice which I quoted.

But you said meditation can't be disturbed.. Clearly if it's possible to enter and exit meditation then meditation can be disturbed.

Not necessarily. If you are disturbed in your “meditation” then you aren’t meditating. If you hear a loud bang or someone coughing, that should not disturb you if you are meditating. If it does disturb you, then you are not meditating because if you are observe nonjudgmentally, you notice things as they arise and pass away. If you notice your mind being disturbed while being detached, nonjudgmentally, then you ARE meditating. When you act and behave mindlessly, then that is when you “exit” meditation and this is how you live 99% of the time. Meditation is using the 1% in which you are aware and fully being in this Now. Consciousness itself cannot be disturbed. Consciousness is the space in which everything appears. You can either be present with Consciousness or you can be absent from life. Most people live in concepts. Meditation is living is actuality. Awareness cannot be disturbed.

[Forestluv]

@r0ckyreed There is a lot to explore without substances. One of my favorite meditative mindspaces comes after running two hours in a forest. And no substance can being there. Naturally high conscious states are amazing too.