For those who walk backwards (post - enlightenment)

[VeganAwake]

36 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@VeganAwake Death of 'the ego', or anything else for that matter, is - in a sense - yet the beginning of one's actual 'work

 And it involves no avoidance and no denial. Rather; sheer commitment and dedication.

Something that most of those who are still disintegrating would label as 'attachment'. But it is actually pure love, acceptance, freedom and joy of being.

 yes it's a totally different communication all together.

this is the end of the separate sense of self that believes there is work that needs to be done for future fulfillment... it's literally the end of seeking because the seeker is recognized to be unreal.

It's not about bypassing, denial or avoidance... it's the recognition there was never a path or a meaning or a purpose to begin with... So avoidance, denial or bypassing becomes a silly concept because there is no goal or end result that needs to be attained.

the easiest way to spot the ego at work is by its sense of lack.

for the ego there's always something more that needs to be attained.

more love more happiness more awareness more consciousness more enlightenment... more more more.

this is how it perpetuates it's illusory existence and keeps you running on the hamster wheel endlessly.

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

16 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@travelerGotcha, cool.

I was smiling and laughing before I even created this thread. As I said; I truly enjoy this. And I also see meaning and value in our conversations. Thank you for joining in.

And yeah, JP is hilarious ? 

**********************

Also wanted to create and add to this thread the following scenario;

Imagine a clueless seeker just beginning their spiritual journey. They come across two paths.

Path A says:

'You are nothing, you have never been born, you don't exist, your entire life is a lie, none of this has ever happened, nothing is real. You only ever speak to yourself. You're even having sex with yourself. You have never felt a touch of another. Never heard a voice of another. Even this message is just a hallucination at play. To realize this Truth for yourself you must be annihilated once and for all. You must die, now.'

Path B says:

'You are much, much more than you believed yourself to be up until now. You are not only your thoughts. Not only your body. Not only your circumstances. Not only your past. You are everything and everywhere. You are pure, unconditionally loving Light. To realize this Truth for yourself you must find courage and faith within your being to follow your heart. Only Love can liberate you.'

In time; the seeker will inevitably come full circle - no matter which path he chooses. All paths lead Home. It's just a matter of resonance and relevance.

Path A is a path of disintegration. It is driven by the mind and it is, imo, filled with much more and much nastier traps and 'egotrips'. 

Path B is what's commonly known as the 'middle way' - I suppose. It is driven by the heart. It is a path of integration, affirmation, authenticity, radical acceptance and unconditional Love. 

Those who walk on path A... Are walking backwards. Only to arrive home and embrace the crap out of everything that's in front them.

I think Path A is very necessary for most people. You have to break down to build new:> I stayed on path A for the first 4 years of my spiritual journey and only last year joined path B, which obviously is the path I vibe the most with now.

I think Path B has just as many traps as path A. But I agree, path A is more extreme than path B, and thus contains more "danger". But I also think it works faster for most people. But they still need to join path B, eventually, if they are to become God/Infinite Love/Light again.

Edited July 30, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[WaveInTheOcean]

18 hours ago, ivankiss said:

 I used the same bundle of words. I stood for the exact same things you stand for. For the exact same nothing. Then Light burned me alive and I could hold on to 'nothing' and 'nobody' no more. It simply was no longer possible. No longer true. Call it a 'natural progression'.

I have been through pretty much the same process. I joked to my friends that I would write a book called "you dont exist". I was very attached to the idea of not existing/no-self/nothingness. 

When Infinite Divine Intelligent Love/God/Light finally made every cell in my body surrender to the ACTUAL truth, I could nothing but let go of everything I believed, including the idea of "not existing"/no-self/nothingness.

The ego is such a sneaky bastard. Self deception is so extremely sneaky. The ultimate way for the ego to hide is in 'the idea of not existing'. HAHA <3  
 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[WaveInTheOcean]

 The Divine, Intelligent, Loving, Infinitely Mysterious, Dancing Light. This song is a manifestation of that.  

I hope no people on this forum are reading and writing comments WITHOUT music. Always do it with music. Always try to smile. Look at the blue sky. Get bathed in the sun. Love <3

"All conclusions are the mind's way of trying to grasp magic."

Ivankiss, write a book, brother. This quote is golden. Instantly posted it on my facebook

Edited July 30, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[WaveInTheOcean]

4 hours ago, ivankiss said:

The seed that's growing into the flower has no resistance towards being the seed. It's simply reaching out to the Light ? 

Haha, resistance is perhaps a wrong word. I surely can appreciate that the being bathed in Divine Light is one or two or infinite planes of consciousness above merely the insight of No-Self:> come at me @VeganAwake , you know i love you, like I love you all here on this beautiful forum <3

You should read this book https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Mind-Universe-Diamonds-Heaven/dp/1620559706 

Bache talks a lot about becoming one with the Light, or The Diamond Luminosity, as he calls it. Also Buddhism talks a lot about Light. I really vibe with your Light-wording, although Love/God is still my favorite words to use to describe my internal state/outlook on life.

Edited July 30, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

I think what's being pointed out and sort of getting lost in the sauce of discussion, is that with this work, when the ego/separate 'self' feels threatened or gets rattled, it recognizes its own possible death. It goes in the super stealth sneaky spiritual ego mode... it's very cunning.

It's so cunning that it hides behind a ultra sneaky web-of-beliefs consisting of purely imaginative concepts such as 'no one', 'no self', 'nothingness', 'i dont exist', etc. 

Try to imagine nothing. I double dare you. Do it. I will buy pancakes if you succeed.

Edited July 30, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

this is the end of the separate sense of self that believes there is work that needs to be done for future fulfillment...

It's not about bypassing, denial or avoidance... it's the recognition there was never a path or a meaning or a purpose to begin with... So avoidance, denial or bypassing becomes a silly concept because there is no goal or end result that needs to be attained.

Sure, but are you truly fullfilled? Even if you are, then what lies next? Is the end of the separate sense of self (which ofc is an illusion) REALLY *THE END* ? Nooooo, it's the beginning brother <3

You say there was no purpose or meaning behind your life. Well, I say otherwise. I say the purpose of your life is to awaken to Love/God/Light. The insight of no-self is merely a step on this way. 

Even if we just forget the concepts of Light/Love/God, have you ever wondered why you HAD a separate sense of self to begin with? I'm happy for you, that you are no longer - now - caught in the chains of separateness/fragementation, but what lies beyond seperation? LOVE. LIGHT. GOD. You even have a fucking Rumi quote in your profile, lol. <3 <3 <3

 

There never was a separate self to begin with. Never ever. There ultimately only is Oneness. But isn't it funny to wonder why there was a feeling/delusion of being separate in the first place? Why all this mess? And even now, even though you KNOW it is enlightenment for no one, even though you KNOW you don't exist as a separate self, you still FEEL like a separate self, right?

 

Why is this so? Why did you go to "a master" to get "your enlightenment" confirmed? Wouldn't only a separate self do such a silly thing?:>

I do lots of silly things. Like reading, eating food, having sex, listening to music, sleeping, watching 'The OA', going out with "friends" (oh, i forgot, they don't exist; i meant: go out with no-one!). Why do I do all that silly stuff? For what purpose? No purpose you say? I say: Love! Leela! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lila_(Hinduism)

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[Nak Khid]

 

[VeganAwake]

32 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Sure, but are you truly fullfilled? 

"There's no one left to be fulfilled or unfulfilled, there's just what's happening" this transcends the idea of someone being fulfilled or unfulfilled

You say there was no purpose or meaning behind your life.

It's complete freedom, there's no longer an egoic agenda driving the train. So why not make the world a better place.

Well, I say otherwise. I say the purpose of your life is to awaken to Love/God/Light. 

And that's just fine that's what is being experienced there. When Liberation occurred here it was recognized everything was already whole complete and perfect because it's WHAT IS... it was just limited perception that said otherwise.

Even if we just forget the concepts of Light/Love/God, have you ever wondered why you HAD a separate sense of self to begin with?

It's just what apparently happens it's THIS!! No need to place concept on top of concept over WHAT IS... or do it makes no difference.

I'm happy for you, that you are no longer - now - caught in the chains of separateness/fragementation, but what lies beyond seperation?

yes when Awakening occurs it's recognized there was never anything that could be bound to begin with... it was simply a misunderstanding.

LOVE. LIGHT. GOD. You even have a fucking Rumi quote in your profile, lol. <3 <3 <3

it's what's happening ❤

 

[Member]

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Path A is a path of disintegration. It is driven by the mind and it is, imo, filled with much more and much nastier traps and 'egotrips'. 

Path B is what's commonly known as the 'middle way' - I suppose. It is driven by the heart. It is a path of integration, affirmation, authenticity, radical acceptance and unconditional Love.

I agree, though I think that Path A is necessary for shadow work since most of the people can't cure their spiritual illnesses that are rooted in ignorance without killing the ego first. But this path is supposed to annihilate only the false self, not the True Self which continues its journey on path B being the path of Creation, Love, Oneness, Everythingness, Light etc.

[WaveInTheOcean]

28 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

 

"There's no one left to be fulfilled or unfulfilled, there's just what's happening"

Sure, there isn't. But if a hot girl - you have a crush on - rejects you, or if your wife suddenly leaves you, how much can you use this conceptual framework of believing that there is no one here to be fulfilled or unfulfilled?

You will be momentarily unfulfilled if a hot girl rejects you or if your wife leaves you. I'm pretty sure you will. At least temporarily. 
...

feeling is what matters. Not knowledge.

Knowledge is only a rumor until it lives in the body.

Edited July 30, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[traveler]

I agree 100% that "nothing" can very easily and will be taken as merely an idea for the individual. But what is being pointed to is beyond all of those dualistic ideas and interpretations. Nothing is just a word pointing to the unknowable isness/aliveness of this. When concepts such as "nothing" no self" and "no one" is read as someone here taking on these concepts, then you get the replies that @WaveInTheOcean and @ivankiss have given. What is being pointed to is not an individual taking these concepts on board on it's 'knowing ship' but rather an indescribable recognition of everything and nothing. Not everything AND nothing, they are one and the same. What is apparently happening is that @WaveInTheOcean and @ivankiss splits nothing and everything into two "paths" a bad (path a) and a good (path b). Nothing being bad, everything being good. A realization that there is no one here jizzing over concepts can happen, what can be seen is that the only one that could ever be jizzing over concepts is you. This message is all encompassing, if an individual reads this it will find a way to make it personal, it will try to make these words fit it's story of what is right and wrong. There is no right and wrong, what is, is all. Call it what you want, light, god, infinite, unconditional love, nothing, everything, these words are just preferences, different expressions of the same indescribable ____ . 

Edited July 30, 2020 by traveler

[Shmurda]

I think @VeganAwake made a great point about starving out the ego. It is necessary to show the ego to become nothing before we can accept living in light fully. 

When I was younger I had a massive breakthrough mushroom trip where I experienced the infinite wall of white light and eternal deafening peace.

I spent a loooong time after that trying to work out how to get to that place again. It's only this year (6 years later) that I realised the thing stopping me was thinking that the Light was something or somewhere. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

14 minutes ago, traveler said:

I agree 100% that "nothing" can very easily and will be taken as merely an idea for the individual. But what is being pointed to is beyond all of those dualistic ideas and interpretations. Nothing is just a word pointing to the unknowable isness/aliveness of this. When concepts such as "nothing" no self" and "no one" is read as someone here taking on these concepts, then you get the replies that @WaveInTheOcean and @ivankiss have given. What is being pointed to is not an individual taking these concepts on board on it's 'knowing ship' but rather an indescribable recognition of everything and nothing. Not everything AND nothing, they are one and the same. What is apparently happening is that @WaveInTheOcean and @ivankiss splits nothing and everything into two "paths" a bad (path a) and a good (path b). Nothing being bad, everything being good. A realization that there is no one here jizzing over concepts can happen, what can be seen is that the only one that could ever be jizzing over concepts is you. This message is all encompassing, if an individual reads this it will find a way to make it personal, it will try to make these words fit it's story of what is right and wrong. There is no right and wrong, what is, is all. Call it what you want, light, god, infinite, unconditional love, nothing, everything, these words are just preferences, different expressions of the same indescribable ____ . 

indeed <3

 

[ivankiss]

This is not about right or wrong.

This is about actuality of being.

Walk your talk.

[traveler]

7 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

This is not about right or wrong.

This is about actuality of being.

Walk your talk.

It is about nothing, that is the freedom. 

[Nahm]

Probably why he called it the Moonwalk. 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

"There's no one left to be fulfilled or unfulfilled, there's just what's happening"

Sure, there isn't. But if a hot girl - you have a crush on - rejects you, or if your wife suddenly leaves you, how much can you use this conceptual framework of believing that there is no one here to be fulfilled or unfulfilled?

You will be momentarily unfulfilled if a hot girl rejects you or if your wife leaves you. I'm pretty sure you will. At least temporarily. 
...

feeling is what matters. Not knowledge.

Knowledge is only a rumor until it lives in the body.

The difference is there isn't someone left that needs or wants it to turn out a certain way.

The resistance to what is, is dropped so inner peace is no longer contingent on external circumstances.

not getting the hot chick or your wife leaving you might temporarily feel inconvenient or less preferred than another outcome... but there's no dramatic personal story created any longer...

there's no stickiness of the self left hanging onto stories causing prolonged suffering.

 

[ivankiss]

53 minutes ago, traveler said:

It is about nothing, that is the freedom. 

Stop jerking off in your mind and be real with yourself.

Only Love is true freedom. 

Let's do an experiment, shall we?

Tomorrow as you go about your daily activities; tell everyone you interact with that they are an illusion, that they don't exist, that they have never been born and that all of this is just nothing. Dead serious.

And I will smile gently at everyone, tell them casually how good they look today and ask them if there's anything that's bugging them lately. I'll even go as far as saying they shine bright as Pure Light.

What do you say? Are you up for it? Or is this a bit too real for ya?

[traveler]

16 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Stop jerking off in your mind and be real with yourself.

Only Love is true freedom. 

Let's do an experiment, shall we?

Tomorrow as you go about your daily activities; tell everyone you interact with that they are an illusion, that they don't exist, that they have never been born and that all of this is just nothing. Dead serious.

And I will smile gently at everyone, tell them casually how good they look today and ask them if there's anything that's bugging them lately. I'll even go as far as saying they shine bright as Pure Light.

What do you say? Are you up for it? Or is this a bit too real for ya?

You obviously don't hear what is being said. You just want to argue, I'm not going to play along anymore.