Is Biden really leading?

[Forestluv]

15 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

Federal agents protecting Federal property is not fascism in any stage. 

I never said it was. I’m am not referring to Federal agents simply protecting Federal property. There is much more going on. 

15 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

Love is the Way.....not force.

In this regard, the Way is not for unwelcomed militia to tear gas, beat up and kidnap peaceful demonstrators and innocent civilians. 

Notice the selective awareness. . . 

Here are some of the people “Federal agents” have teargassed, beaten and kidnapped. These are regular people in Portland coming out together to protest the fascist violence of an unwelcomed militia into their community. They are not protesting the protection of Federal buildings agains graffiti and vandalism. They are protesting fascist violence. 

This is what “Love is the Way, not force“ looks like . . . “Hands up. Please don’t shoot me. . . “

 

[mandyjw]

On 7/20/2020 at 11:37 AM, Forestluv said:

No, not the same with Hillary. 

First, the polls were very close in the 2016. They predicted a 3% Hillary advantage and she won the popular vote by 2%. The main problem with the polls is that they treated each state independently and did not factor in a cluster effect. The polls have been updated. 

Hmm... how updated?  I'm still really skeptical. Seems like nothing good in my life has ever came from following the news or polls. It was such a roller coaster towards the end in 2016. Didn't seem possible that Mr. "You can do anything" would become the next president of the US. I thought I was watching the news to be educated and really it was just feeding my own naiveté, fears and wishful thinking... somehow all of those at once. Once bitten twice shy.  

Edited July 21, 2020 by mandyjw

[Bodigger]

2 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I never said it was. I’m am not referring to Federal agents simply protecting Federal property. There is much more going on.  

No....That is all that is going on with the Federal agents.  Portland is going over 50 straight day's of riots.  Yes, there are many peaceful protests, but every night for 50 day's there has been destruction of public and private property.  

Careful with that last sentence......sounds like conspiracy.

11 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

In this regard, the Way is not for unwelcomed militia to tear gas, beat up and kidnap peaceful demonstrators and innocent civilians. 

They are welcome to protect Federal buildings, such as a Federal courthouse in this case, which is our property.

Local News KOIN report;

7 charged with federal crimes after Portland riots

Only 4 of the 7 are from the Portland metro area

 

[Forestluv]

59 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

No....That is all that is going on with the Federal agents. 

There are plenty of videos and accounts of an unwelcomed Federal militia tear gassing, beating and kidnapping peaceful protestors and regular people throughout the city of Portland. A few of which have been posted in this thread. There is a reason why tens of thousands of peaceful, regular Portland citizens are gathering together and singing “Hands up. Please don’t shoot me”. If your cognitive dissonance is so strong that you cannot see this, I don’t think I can help you.

I can see the graffiti and vandalism to Federal buildings. I acknowledge that it exists and is inappropriate. Unfortunately, that is all that Trumpers can see. They cannot see that there is ALSO inappropriate authoritarian Federal violence targeted against peaceful, innocent protestors - even when presented with that actual violence. This is a myopic view and it will allow the invasive plants of authoritarian violence to grow and spread.

It is no longer theory. This is what the early stages of authoritarianism an fascism looks like. This is it. America is not some special place that is immune from these forces of authoritarianism and fascism. EVERY American should be concerned about what is happening, regardless of party affiliation. As I said, not previous Republican president would have stood for this activity. When this has happened in an undeveloped country, the U.S. has always condemned it and threatened sanctions or military force. 

[Nak Khid]

13 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

No....That is all that is going on with the Federal agents.  Portland is going over 50 straight day's of riots.  Yes, there are many peaceful protests, but every night for 50 day's there has been destruction of public and private property.  

Careful with that last sentence......sounds like conspiracy.

They are welcome to protect Federal buildings, such as a Federal courthouse in this case, which is our property.

Local News KOIN report;

7 charged with federal crimes after Portland riots

Only 4 of the 7 are from the Portland metro area

 

https://www.koin.com/news/protests/7-charged-with-federal-crimes-after-portland-riots/

7 charged with federal crimes after Portland riots

2020 PROTESTS

 4 of the 7 are from the Portland metro area

by: KOIN 6 News Staff

Posted: Jul 7, 2020 

PORTLAND, Ore. (KOIN) — Seven people arrested during weekend riots in Portland 

 4 of the 7 are from the Portland area

Olsen — who authorities said gave them a false name of Kiefer Alan Moore and a false date of birth (said he was 24) at the time he was arrested — charged with disorderly conduct, creating a hazard on federal property, and failing to obey a lawful order. He allegedly pushed and held a glass door at the Hatfield Courthouse closed, which kept officers inside and shattered the door. After the door was broken, officials said, a mortar came into the courthouse and exploded near the officers.

Ahuja is accused of destroying a closed-circuit video camera on the outside of the federal courthouse. Blank allegedly assaulted a federal office with a shield.

Faulkner, Fellini, Porter and Teo allegedly used high intensity laser to assault federal officers. Faulkner also had a sheathed machete at the time of his arrest, authorities said.

The investigation by the US Marshals, the FBI, ATFE, Federal Protective Service, Customs and Border Protections and Homeland Security continues.

[Forestluv]

@Nak Khid No one is saying that there are not incidents of graffiti and vandalism.That is not what regular people in Portland are protesting. Myopically looking at that graffiti and vandalism distracts from something much more dangerous occurring. This is part of Trump’s playbook toward authoritarian rule. 

Be mindful about unintentionally empowering that underlying agenda. . . 

[Forestluv]

31 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Hmm... how updated?  I'm still really skeptical. Seems like nothing good in my life has ever came from following the news or polls. It was such a roller coaster towards the end in 2016. Didn't seem possible that Mr. "You can do anything" would become the next president of the US. I thought I was watching the news to be educated and really it was just feeding my own naiveté, fears and wishful thinking... somehow all of those at once. Once bitten twice shy.  

Never in the modern era has a candidate been consistently outside the margin of error in polls, until this year with Trump. Yet being deeply unpopular is insufficient to lose an election. Trump still has powerful pieces on the game board and I don’t count him out. I hope there is a free and fair election with high voter turnout. If so, I don’t see Trump winning. Yet that is a big “if”. . . 

[Nak Khid]

11 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@Nak Khid No one is saying that there are not incidents of graffiti and vandalism.That is not what regular people in Portland are protesting. Myopically looking at that graffiti and vandalism distracts from something much more dangerous occurring. This is part of Trump’s playbook toward authoritarian rule. 

Be mindful about unintentionally empowering that underlying agenda. . . 

I posted that because the charges don't seem that egregious, sounds like scuffles with the police related rather than setting buildings on fire,  bombing and shooting 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Nak Khid said:

I posted that because the charges don't seem that egregious 

I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying the context. I agree that graffiti and minor vandalism does not justify a draconian, authoritarian response. I think graffiti and minor vandalism is inappropriate and action should be taken to stop it, yet it does not rise to the level of an unidentified federal militia exerting violence against ordinary, peaceful citizens. 

[Bodigger]

19 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

I posted that because the charges don't seem that egregious 

 

38 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

Olsen — who authorities said gave them a false name of Kiefer Alan Moore and a false date of birth (said he was 24) at the time he was arrested — charged with disorderly conduct, creating a hazard on federal property, and failing to obey a lawful order. He allegedly pushed and held a glass door at the Hatfield Courthouse closed, which kept officers inside and shattered the door. After the door was broken, officials said, a mortar came into the courthouse and exploded near the officers.

Ahuja is accused of destroying a closed-circuit video camera on the outside of the federal courthouse. Blank allegedly assaulted a federal office with a shield.

Faulkner, Fellini, Porter and Teo allegedly used high intensity laser to assault federal officers. Faulkner also had a sheathed machete at the time of his arrest, authorities said.

So you wouldn't mind if they come over for dinner?  LOL

If this kind of crap happened in my neighborhood....well, let's just say, these individuals would not be working on climbing the spiral any longer.  These are not Integris acts so why defend it?

[Nak Khid]

14 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying the context. I agree that graffiti and minor vandalism does not justify a draconian, authoritarian response. I think graffiti and minor vandalism is inappropriate and action should be taken to stop it, yet it does not rise to the level of an unidentified federal militia exerting violence against ordinary, peaceful citizens. 

Trump says he is planning this for other cities. 
Some of these cities are not attempting to shut down these daily protests but wants them to end 

But why not wait until school starts?  If many of these are students then they may not find it convenient to come to the protests that much  

 

[Nak Khid]

3 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

These are not Integris acts so why defend it?

I posted that because you said "protect Federal buildings, such as a Federal courthouse"

and then you posted this article and the event described did not talk about threats to these buildings 
 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Bodigger said:

So you wouldn't mind if they come over for dinner?  LOL

If this kind of crap happened in my neighborhood....well, let's just say, these individuals would not be working on climbing the spiral any longer.  These are not Integris acts so why defend it?

This myopic view is totally missing the point.

No one is saying that there shouldn’t be consequences for graffiti and minor vandalism. If someone did graffiti and minor vandalism on my home, that person should face consequences that is proportional to that behavior. Yet if someone did graffiti and minor vandalism to my home, it does not justify a Federal militia entering my neighborhood and tear gassing, beating and kidnapping my neighbors. THAT is what so many people are upset about. 

Can you not see your fellow Americans? This is how it starts. It’s happening right now. This is it. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

17 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

 

So you wouldn't mind if they come over for dinner?  LOL

If this kind of crap happened in my neighborhood....well, let's just say, these individuals would not be working on climbing the spiral any longer.  These are not Integris acts so why defend it?

You could say the same thing about the troops dispersing protests.

[Bodigger]

47 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

You could say the same thing about the troops dispersing protests.

I am quite convinced that the troops have more integrity so I will be more than happy to have them over for dinner.

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

I don’t think I can help you.

I wouldn't want to accept help in the form of shame, guilt, apathy, fear, anger, or pride.  However, I will accept help in truth in the form of Love, Joy, and Peace.

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

This myopic view is totally missing the point.

No one is saying that there shouldn’t be consequences for graffiti and minor vandalism. If someone did graffiti and minor vandalism on my home, that person should face consequences that is proportional to that behavior. Yet if someone did graffiti and minor vandalism to my home, it does not justify a Federal militia entering my neighborhood and tear gassing, beating and kidnapping my neighbors. THAT is what so many people are upset about. 

Can you not see your fellow Americans?

No....I am giving evidence and opinion contrary to what you are attempting to emit so the people on this forum can decide for themselves what is true, factual, opinionated, or otherwise.

Still Love you.….. 

[Forestluv]

48 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

I wouldn't want to accept help in the form of shame, guilt, apathy, fear, anger, or pride.  However, I will accept help in truth in the form of Love, Joy, and Peace. 

I have not tried to shame or guilt you as being at fault. Rather, I am trying to show you your fellow peaceful Americans that are being tear gassed, beaten and kidnapped by a Federal militia. One strategy of an authoritarian regimen is creating blindness or fear of their fellow citizens. If an authoritarian militia entered Wisconsin and treated your and your family like the citizens in Portland, I would be fighting just as hard for you and your family. This is not about republican vs democrat or conservative vs. progressive. This goes much deeper into authoritarian rule. 

Open your eyes and observe what is happening to your fellow Americans in Portland. Tens of thousands of your fellow Americans are gathering together because they are being mistreated by an authoritarian militia. And the federal government wants to expand this federal militia to cities across America. If Obama was doing this against those he perceived as opposing him, you would be outraged. Put aside partisan politics and look at what the federal government is doing. It doesn’t matter if it is a republican or democrat-led government. Look objectively as if this was happening in another country and you had no party affiliation. 

48 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

No....I am giving evidence and opinion contrary to what you are attempting to emit so the people on this forum can decide for themselves what is true, factual, opinionated, or otherwise.

Again, this is missing the point. I acknowledge that there are people doing graffiti and vandalism and that there should be proportional consequences to this crime. That is not the point. The point is the federal militia tear gassing, beating and kidnapping peaceful, ordinary citizens. Your fellow Americans. The videos and accounts from regular Portlanders is indisputable. Tens of thousands of regular citizens are not gathering and singing “Hands up, Please don’t shoot me” in support of vandalism. They are demonstrating against authoritarian violence against their community. 

This is how fascism starts. Authoritarians blind citizens to the treatment of their fellow citizens. Authoritarians instill fear of fellow citizens. 

48 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

Still Love you.….. 

Yet you wouldn’t stand up for me if I was peacefully protesting and got tear gassed, beaten and kidnapped without cause by a Federal militia. You would turn a blind eye as you are doing now. Yet I would fight for you if you got treated that way. We are all in this together. 

[Loving Radiance]

5 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

This goes much deeper into authoritarian rule. 

Do you think Trump is cunning enough to use this situation in Portland to test the waters for possible nationwide exercise of law and order?

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, Loving Radiance said:

Do you think Trump is cunning enough to use this situation in Portland to test the waters for possible nationwide exercise of law and order?

Of course, that is the playbook. Trump and his sycophants want federal authoritarian rule. It will likely get worse over the next few months. The legal journal Lawfare just published an article about how the DHS is planning an expansion of this authoritarian “law and order”. As well, attorney John Yoo has stated that Trump’s team has spoken to him about how to skirt Congress through executive loopholes and execute law and order by decree. 

 

[Bodigger]

4 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Of course, that is the playbook. Trump and his sycophants want federal authoritarian rule. 

It's official.....We have completely Lost our minds.  Although, that is why I continue to do spiritual work, to lose my Mind.

 

[Forestluv]

49 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

It's official.....We have completely Lost our minds. 

Do you really not see Trump’s authoritarian tendencies? 

Yes, he is trying to expand his policing authority through executive decree. This has clearly been described by legal experts, such as in the legal journal “Lawfare” as well as attorney John Yoo. Trump and the DHS are planning to bypass congress and expand their federal militia throughout America by an authoritarian executive decree. Turn off FoxNews and observe what’s happening. 

And notice how you brushed aside the substance of what I’ve written to you in this thread to a lazy statement of “It’s official. . . We have completely Lost our minds”. That dismissal will allow the mind to turn a blind eye. 

https://www.lawfareblog.com/dhs-authorizes-domestic-surveillance-protect-statues-and-monuments

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-congress-supreme-court-bush-waterboarding-john-yoo-a9629306.html