What has more influence over testosterone secretion PNS or SNS

[WisdomSeeker]

What has more influence over testosterone secretion Parasympathetic Nervous System or Sympathetic Nervous System?

[WisdomSeeker]

@Michael569 thx exactly what I needed. So, working out hard in the morning activating SNS, but then through yoga, breathwork, meditation diet I can reintegrate into my day activating  PNS for the rest of the day and that is how I would balance out SNS and PNS, because it's difficult to workout hard if I dont activate my SnS, and so long as I dont stay in that state of sns activation, and instead then activate pns for the rest of the day, I should be good. Most of the time being in Pns is good, but one cant always be in pns nor would that be good, correct?

[WisdomSeeker]

@Michael569 do you have recommendations on optimizing both. Workout timing type of workouts and balancing it after for the rest of the day via yoga, meditation? How do you measure this besides how you feel after, are you using heart rate monitor, eeg, ph/cortisol levels  etc.? Realisticslly could you be a body builder, cross fitter, high intensity athlete and have balanced SNS and PNS?

Edited June 12, 2020 by WisdomSeeker

[WisdomSeeker]

@Michael569 it seems to be that the balance of an elite athlete (in this case I'm emphasizing athletes which require maximal muscle think body builder, football player) with consistent activation of PNS, that seem to be at odds. There are exceptions, but most people that have seemed to reach the higher levels of meditation and PNS activation, do not seem to be these elite type of athletes that I am focusing on? Are they at odds with eachother? This and the fact that many of these types of athletes are jacking their endocrine system up by taking anabolic steroids, which I would also imagine hinders PNS activation, even though you mentioned PNS activation increases testosterone levels. 

Not to overgeenralize and over simplify,  but you don't see an arnold schwarzennegger like guy hitting heightened states of PNS and consciousness like a Sadhguru, thich nhat hanh etc, etc, for example. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by WisdomSeeker

[Moreira]

1 hour ago, WisdomSeeker said:

@Michael569 it seems to be that the balance of an elite athlete (in this case I'm emphasizing athletes which require maximal muscle think body builder, football player) with consistent activation of PNS, that seem to be at odds. There are exceptions, but most people that have seemed to reach the higher levels of meditation and PNS activation, do not seem to be these elite type of athletes that I am focusing on? Are they at odds with eachother? This and the fact that many of these types of athletes are jacking their endocrine system up by taking anabolic steroids, which I would also imagine hinders PNS activation, even though you mentioned PNS activation increases testosterone levels. 

Not to overgeenralize and over simplify,  but you don't see an arnold schwarzennegger like guy hitting heightened states of PNS and consciousness like a Sadhguru, thich nhat hanh etc, etc, for example. 

Dont look at pro budybuyilders because their testosterone dynamics is totally masked by the steroids. In fact  the olds school habit of eating every 2-3 hours lowers testo. In the other hand, it has been proved that what gives a big impact of natural testo production is intemitent fasting, D3 vitaim, cleaning the liver and eating quality fats. Apart from the obvious strenght training and hiit.

[WisdomSeeker]

@Moreira @michael569 thank you both, glad you reinforced my thinking.  Now, picking a more sustainable goal for health and fitness that isn't influenced by these deceiving and cultural and extreme examples of fitness, would be the idea. 

[Lyubov]

@Michael569

Do you by chance have a list of supplements, foods, activities, and books to boost testosterone naturally?

[Onemanwolfpac]

On 11/06/2020 at 11:11 AM, WisdomSeeker said:

What has more influence over testosterone secretion Parasympathetic Nervous System or Sympathetic Nervous System?

Read estrogenation. 

[UDT]

On 11/06/2020 at 5:30 PM, Michael569 said:

PNS stimulates it, SNS steals it. When you are in Sympathetic dominance and cortisol is increased,  it will actually "hijack" testosterone production by stealing Progesterone & Pregnenolone needed to go towards DHEA and Androstenedione. Instead majority of steroids will be used towards the cortisone pathway. 

@Michael569 Beautiful Michael, you know your shit. Makes me want to Interview you on a podcast, interested?

[LfcCharlie4]

On 12/06/2020 at 4:57 PM, Michael569 said:

@WisdomSeeker I think the desire to be a top athlete defeats the entire purpose of raising one's consciousness. It is a neurotic desire to be the best which can never be maintained. Either your body breaks down from all that free radical damage and you crumble or you simply age and younger men get better, you can see a lot of this in ageing athletes.

Either way being an elite athlete usually makes for a pretty miserable and painful retirement. The more one has been stimulating himself/herself throughout life in any way the greater the ageing body has been taxed, scarred and damaged beyond repair. It is not a longevity strategy at all.  

+ add to that dumping down tons of animal proteins and enhancing substances, creatines and all this garbage and you have a stage 4 chronic kidney disease in your late 30s 

I agree to an extent especially with certain sports such as bodybuilding, you are essentially destroying your body to reach the top, although I feel it’s important not to dismiss it completely, watching the 90s greats like Dorian Yates has showed me it does way deeper. 
 

I feel a healthier desire is to be the best you can be possibly be, while maintaining your health in the best way possible & doing it simply for the love of the game.

For example, I play recreational cricket, and have been paying a coach to improve, and honestly it’s helped so much and made me enjoy the sport even more, I feel most sport/ skill games are like tbis, the better you get, the more you can enjoy it, but I feel a “stage yellow” approach would be to compare yourself to yourself, instead of everyone else, and doing it because you enjoy and love it.

Also, retirement can be a great chance for deeper inner work, I hope we see this more and more. 
 

I for one am very excited to see sports grow and develop from our stage orange society, they have so much potential! 
 

Sorry for the rant, but I feel many on this forum misunderstand and judge sports unfairly, like anything they can be amazing and beautiful, and in fact, being completely involved in a sporting endeavour is a very spiritual experience. 
 

Sadhguru’s article here highlights a healthy mindset around sports and games- https://isha.sadhguru.org/global/en/wisdom/sadhguru-spot/be-a-sport

I do agree regarding nutrition though, that needs to evolve in sports to once that supports overall longevity and wellbeing, that is something that will evolve very soon I imagine  

[WisdomSeeker]

@Michael569 For Testosterone: what about pine pollen and exposure to hot and cold (Sauna and Ice bath)?  Also, do you have examples of a well-known person that can be used as a good baseline of balance between PNS and SNS. I ask this because our society has skewed our perspective of what fitness is, sometimes, I don't know what I should be aiming for with a form of fitness that is balanced with the sympathetic nervous system. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by WisdomSeeker

[LfcCharlie4]

@WisdomSeeker

Watch this bro, the guy runs a clinic literally around this, and goes other the exact topic-

 

[WisdomSeeker]

@LfcCharlie4His goal at least, in the beginning he has explained for his client to get women. This is not important to me. It seems like a pua community based audience. Some of what he says is interesting, but I'm look at how to integrate and balance that with the sns and the spiritual. He doesn't seem to value that same goal. 

Personally I think audrey marcus has a much more holistic approach https://www.onnit.com/academy/testosterone-levels-need-know/ especially integrating this with a spiritual practice. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by WisdomSeeker

[LfcCharlie4]

@WisdomSeeker yeah PWF is, but the guy he’s interviewing isn’t, that was the point, that dude is married, all he’s interested in is optimum longevity and T levels for health and well-being, your call if you wanna watch, he goes over some vital info. 

[WisdomSeeker]

@Michael569 How do you feel about aubrey marcus, he seems like he is proactive about integrating  fitness/health with spirituality? In terms of supplements, also I am somewhat reserved on their use because they don't have same FDA requirements as food and a lot of them are deceivingly unhealthy, e.g. I just found out a year ago for example Garden of life Raw Food Meal replacement was found to have heavy metals in it, prior to that it was supposedly the healthiest meal replacement out there.  And then you have supplements some guys with, what appears to be a holistic approach to fitness, suggesting beta alinine, which my understanding can put you in SNS through out the whole day. 

There also seems to be significant evidence to support that, people primarily on plant-based diets (including vegans, vegetarians and even flexitarians) are likely to consume more heavy metals than people consuming primarily animal-based food products. I've had a number of vegan, vegetarian and pescatarian friends  take the heavy metal tests and that is what the results are pointing to, as well. 

I take it crossfit, was too much sns activation. competitive, and in the long wrong too hard on the body, injury, over taxing, etc? I take the guys you mentioned are the type of exercises you do now?

Lastly, regarding this comment: "What I was bashing on is the desire to be the top of the game simply for the idea to be 'the best'," isn't the issue being attached to competition in general, not even necessarily just being the best, correct? 

Edited June 17, 2020 by WisdomSeeker

[LfcCharlie4]

5 hours ago, Michael569 said:

@LfcCharlie4 I am not bashing on sports at all. I love sports, have been practicing martial arts since I was 7. 

What I was bashing on is the desire to be the top of the game simply for the idea to be "the best". And then navigating one's life around that in a very unsustainable way which often ends up in abuse of illegal substances

If you ever watch a karate master performing Kata, he does not care if he is the best, he is 100% focused on each move and he does this because it is an art and his gift to humanity. 

Physical activity needs to be sustainable if it is something you will be unable to do once you are 60, it is not the right thing to do. It has to be lifelong sustainable. Cricket definitely is

Got it man! Sorry so many people on here just don’t seem to appreciate sport, I didn’t have you down as one of them  

 

And, yeah that’s simply believing in the illusion that it will give them happiness, when in reality, like anything playing sport can only be an expression of it! 
 

completely agree, true masters are in love with their art, for the sake of the art! 
 

Again, agree, this is kinda the issue I have with guys like Goggins, great for getting you motivated but it’s so unsustainable long term and he hates what he does, to me sport is about loving what you do! 

[WisdomSeeker]

@LfcCharlie4 life is humbling goggins though. Absolutely, the unsustainability is what damaged his body/psoas muscles and he said he was dying, but was able to recover by using yoga. He now does it everyday for 2 hours. I do believe he is taking some spiritual components from it as well. This is actually why I like Goggins, he is evolving slowly, but surely. His adoption of yoga is definitely going in the right direction.

[LfcCharlie4]

@WisdomSeeker Yeah, that’s true, I wasn’t meaning on bashing on him just the blue/ orange mindset of more is always better, good to hear Goggins is developing, he’s certainly motivated millions! 

[WisdomSeeker]

@@Michael569 aside from the superior health care a millionaire gets, how is Arnold Schwarzenegger still alive after all those roids? And in relatively good health, minus the heart attack he had a couple years back?

[Nahm]

@Michael569

I don’t stop and mention it, so I am...you’re a gem dude. The genuine article, a gift that most authentically keeps on givin. I learn from all your posts and appreciate the time, effort, insight and knowledge you bring. Thank you sir.