Self Inquiry and confusion - Is this progress?

[billiesimon]

I've been doing self inquiry every single day for three weeks now, and one huge benefit it has given me is more presence.

I'm more present to the moment and less in my head.

But there's still huge confusion about it even though I've watched both Leo's videos about it.

I've reached just today, immediately after the SI session, a slight sense of "watching myself on tv".
I mean... just after today's session, I've felt like these hands, these feet, these bodily sensations etc were 80% "mine" and 20% from a character I'm watching on a screen, a videogame character. And of course when I focus on the 80% that feels like me, I can't find my core. But when I focus on the 20% that feels like a movie character I perceive this very fleeting perception of being a non-physical entity that's watching my character. Just 1 or 2 seconds and then I'm lost in a cloud of confusion.

Is this 20% movie-feeling the right direction to go with self inquiry?

Is this progress or self deception?

[billiesimon]

I want to add:

Sometimes I self inquiry by looking at a star or at the moon, and focusing on the perceptions, gradually losing my sense of identity in the process of total focus. Sometimes what happens is that the star or the moon starts to distort like on psychedelics (but I'm sober of course) and the visual field around it gets very blurry and pulsating.

Generally, when the visual pulsation becomes quite crazy, I've some few times felt a sensation of fear inside me, like I was getting lost in deep space and never to be found. And then the ego kick back immediately and I can't refocus again on the moon.... I'm like smacked down on earth again and defeated.

Is this a sign of partial ego loss (during the inquiry) or self deception?

Edited March 16, 2020 by billiesimon

[Nahm]

The “answer” of self inquiry is feeling. So if there’s a contextual question, (a ‘perception question’ and or ‘feeling question’ is only contextual / conceptual) let it go.

Letting it go is the key. The “work”. 

The fear is not of feeling, it is of thought. Let it go. 

[billiesimon]

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The “answer” of self inquiry is feeling. So if there’s a contextual question, (a ‘perception question’ and or ‘feeling question’ is only contextual / conceptual) let it go.

Letting it go is the key. The “work”. 

The fear is not of feeling, it is of thought. Let it go. 

Do you mean that I shouldn't conceptualize what happens to me on self inquiry?

 

P.S.: are the practices I'm using correct? It's hard to understand if I'm doing it right, since you get such a tiny feedback from the inquiry 

[Nahm]

@billiesimon Yes & no. There’s a difference between not conceptualizing, and feeling for the “answer”. 

Also, how quiet the mind is from meditation or yoga can have a lot to do with how self inquiry goes. 

[Forestluv]

If the mind goes into theoretical mode, let it go. For example, we could ask "what is real and imagined?". If the mind starts thinking like "Real would be things that I can touch. Real is physical things. Real is things I can perceive. Stuff there is evidence for". . . Then stop. Why? Because we just introduced about six new self-inquiry questions: "What is a thing?", "What is physical?", "What is perception?", "What is evidence?". Thus, we are moving in the opposite direction. . . 

I ask the inquiry question and just observe. If nothing arises, fine. If something arises, fine. Sometimes I let the question go and two days later I will be in nature and an insight arises "oh, so that's it". Or a few days later, I may have a dream about it. To me, an inquiry is like planting a seed. 

I think inquiry is great for allowing space for implicit understanding, as described in Leo's video. When this arises, it can be tempting to explicitly describe it through words and images. Trying to explicitly describe implicit understanding is a very different orientation from explicitly trying to figure out the implicit.

As well, there can also be a form of "thought" that arises, yet it's not a regular thought. For example, I may be laying under a tree for hours, observing. A few thoughts may arise, yet there is no "me" thinking or attachment to it. The thoughts are like background sounds and don't have regular "thought power". It's all One. A thought would be the same as a frog croaking, a leaf falling or a feeling. It's all hallucinations. There is no grasping or pushing away of anything. This is a very different relationship with thoughts. It's not really a "thought", yet I don't know what else to call it. 

[billiesimon]

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

If the mind goes into theoretical mode, let it go. For example, we could ask "what is real and imagined?". If the mind starts thinking like "Real would be things that I can touch. Real is physical things. Real is things I can perceive. Stuff there is evidence for". . . Then stop. Why? Because we just introduced about six new self-inquiry questions: "What is a thing?", "What is physical?", "What is perception?", "What is evidence?". Thus, we are moving in the opposite direction. . . 

I ask the inquiry question and just observe. If nothing arises, fine. If something arises, fine. Sometimes I let the question go and two days later I will be in nature and an insight arises "oh, so that's it". Or a few days later, I may have a dream about it. To me, an inquiry is like planting a seed. 

Yeah, I try to avoid the theoretical mode, because it traps me into monkey mind. That's also why I don't use "verbal" self inquiry. 
I mean... I don't use the questions like "Who am I"? I just sit in silence after meditation and observe reality and my feelings to try to "feel" my Consciousness. 

Sometimes what happens is that my bodily sensations become distant, like my body is some kind of movie character, and sometimes I get absorbed by the scenery I am seeing, like I become partially connected to the moon/sky/horizon etc and lose a small sense of "human identity".

I don't know if it's the right way to do it, but I'm doing it this way because I feel like it's a lot easier to merge with awareness with this method, for me.

The verbal questions get me distracted by monkey mind, so I prefer to use this meditative state of "forgetting my identity". 

Edited March 16, 2020 by billiesimon

[Thewritersunion]

Notice how much you like to build a model of yourself and of the world. Focus on those two general things and realize you are none, you are not even space or time, for you are God. You are the highest actualization and dimensions of Reality and are not bound by some mere assumptions. 

Stop building models and instead deconstruct them, for all modeling is limited and will fall because everything will collapse. After that, you'll realize that every model is built, of its core, of an assumption. Just look at Rome or any big business, it all collapses because assumptions can only go so far.

So really, at the end of the day, there is only room to become a more loving God.

---

But that's just my interpretation, do the work yourself.

[Forestluv]

@billiesimon That's cool too. I'd probably use the term "observing' or "being", yet "inquiring" can work too. 

[billiesimon]

18 minutes ago, Thewritersunion said:

Notice how much you like to build a model of yourself and of the world. Focus on those two general things and realize you are none, you are not even space or time, for you are God. You are the highest actualization and dimensions of Reality and are not bound by some mere assumptions. 

Stop building models and instead deconstruct them, for all modeling is limited and will fall because everything will collapse. After that, you'll realize that every model is built, of its core, of an assumption. Just look at Rome or any big business, it all collapses because assumptions can only go so far.

So really, at the end of the day, there is only room to become a more loving God.

---

But that's just my interpretation, do the work yourself.

I'm still new and conceptualizing is an easy trap for me

[billiesimon]

18 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@billiesimon That's cool too. I'd probably use the term "observing' or "being", yet "inquiring" can work too. 

Yeah, you are right, I focus more on being conscious than on inquiring itself. 
But I still call it self inquiry because I do it to get a "feeling" of who I really am, by silencing my sense of identity.

My end goal is to find out who is really Being Present.

[StripedGiraffe]

Do not cling to any answers. The answer you're looking for cannot be explicated. Confusion is wonderful sign that you're on the right track. Keep going, my friend !

[Nahm]

@billiesimon Feeling is feeling, not any who. If you boldface any I’s, me’s, my’s, I’ve’s, Leo’s, character’s’, myself’s...in your op...it can be insightful and revealing of the very thought activity which is veiling feeling with a bunch of ’who thoughts’. The thoughts don’t hear a Horton - Horton hears “the who’s”...or...awareness is aware...thought - is not aware. I’s, me’s, my’s, I’ve’s, Leo’s, character’s’, myself’s <—— those are thoughts feeling is aware of, those thoughts are not aware.

[mandyjw]

26 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 those are thoughts feeling is aware of, those thoughts are not aware.

Woooooah. 

[Nahm]

@mandyjw  “ohh ohh oooohhhh!” 

[billiesimon]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

@billiesimon Feeling is feeling, not any who. If you boldface any I’s, me’s, my’s, I’ve’s, Leo’s, character’s’, myself’s...in your op...it can be insightful and revealing of the very thought activity which is veiling feeling with a bunch of ’who thoughts’. The thoughts don’t hear a Horton - Horton hears “the who’s”...or...awareness is aware...thought - is not aware. I’s, me’s, my’s, I’ve’s, Leo’s, character’s’, myself’s <—— those are thoughts feeling is aware of, those thoughts are not aware.

Ok, now I see where I was stuck. But it's still really hard to practice it without the constant trap of concepts and sneaky thoughts 

Thanks for the explanation.

[Nahm]

@billiesimon

Very understandable. Decontextualize the entire landscape:

”Self inquiry and confusion - is this progress?”

Scrap “progress”, and bring “realization” onboard. 

     No one is “progressing”, there is nothing to “progress” towards. You are already complete, whole, and perfect. When the “aim” is changed to realizing this...this is the same as saying....realizing what is already the case, what is already actual. The love known on the trip is still present, identical to and synonymous with “now”... ever-present, eternal. Love does not come, love does not go. Thoughts - come & go. Simply notice, via relaxing, ‘allowing’, observing, seeing what is already the case. 

Scrap “confusion” and bring “seeing what is already the case” onboard. There is no longer the potential for “confusion”, as that is recognized to be a thought. The feeling of confusion, so to speak, is saying “let the thought go!”. 

 

17 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

hard to practice it without the constant trap of concepts and sneaky thoughts 

What is “it”?    (It is a ‘write off).  There’s no “It”.  “Self inquiry” is not an “it”.  “Self inquiry” is a thought. Let the thought, go. 

Concepts arise, of  you.   Let them go. 

Sneaky thoughts arise, of  you.   Let them go. 

‘They’ arise of  you, like the drops of water at the very top of a sprinkler arise of  the sprinkler. 

“The ride” to the bottom, is simply in letting the focus of “the top” (thoughts)....go. 

 

You might consider self inquiry to be exactly like:

”Don’t think of a pink elephant” <— that thought won’t “cut it”. It’s not actually helpful, because it is still focusing on “a pink elephant”....it is just sneakery...or, focusing on the absence of a thing, which focus wise - is still focusing on the same ‘thing’. 

[billiesimon]

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@billiesimon

Very understandable. Decontextualize the entire landscape:

”Self inquiry and confusion - is this progress?”

Scrap “progress”, and bring “realization” onboard. 

     No one is “progressing”, there is nothing to “progress” towards. You are already complete, whole, and perfect. When the “aim” is changed to realizing this...this is the same as saying....realizing what is already the case, what is already actual. The love known on the trip is still present, identical to and synonymous with “now”... ever-present, eternal. Love does not come, love does not go. Thoughts - come & go. Simply notice, via relaxing, ‘allowing’, observing, seeing what is already the case. 

Scrap “confusion” and bring “seeing what is already the case” onboard. There is no longer the potential for “confusion”, as that is recognized to be a thought. The feeling of confusion, so to speak, is saying “let the thought go!”. 

 

What is “it”?    (It is a ‘write off).  There’s no “It”.  “Self inquiry” is not an “it”.  “Self inquiry” is a thought. Let the thought, go. 

Concepts arise, of  you.   Let them go. 

Sneaky thoughts arise, of  you.   Let them go. 

‘They’ arise of  you, like the drops of water at the very top of a sprinkler arise of  the sprinkler. 

“The ride” to the bottom, is simply in letting the focus of “the top” (thoughts)....go. 

 

You might consider self inquiry to be exactly like:

”Don’t think of a pink elephant” <— that thought won’t “cut it”. It’s not actually helpful, because it is still focusing on “a pink elephant”....it is just sneakery...or, focusing on the absence of a thing, which focus wise - is still focusing on the same ‘thing’. 

Again thanks for the great explanation ? The first day it was easier because I was just accepting the present moment, now it's like a battlefield of thoughts, anxiety and moments of quiet in between 

Yeah, in my psychedelic trip I experienced a feeling of almost total unity with reality, a feeling of receiving free love and giving free love. Abundance is also a good term.

But, coming back into my ego, there's this dreadful feeling of separation from reality. There's fear, scarcity, judgement... a general sense of "I am here in my closet and reality is out there ignoring me". I get it that it is mind-created, but to be honest I actually feel separation. Or if this separation is mind-created... it still feels very realistic and tricky 

 

The fleeting moments of "presence" during self inquiry are the only ones where I can feel that there's no fear, but outside of these quick moments the fear and separation feel very "realistic". I may sound idiotic but that's what I feel that happens.

[Raptorsin7]

@Nahm Once you recognize the distinction between feeling and thinking, then what?

The human can reach a place where there is consistent attention on feeling rather than thinking, and as a result the sensations in the third eye region pulse and vibrate to varying degrees. But then what?

The human isn't feeling the love. What's the next step after re-connecting with feeling?

[billiesimon]

27 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Nahm Once you recognize the distinction between feeling and thinking, then what?

The human can reach a place where there is consistent attention on feeling rather than thinking, and as a result the sensations in the third eye region pulse and vibrate to varying degrees. But then what?

The human isn't feeling the love. What's the next step after re-connecting with feeling?

The answer interests me too.

To be more precise: 

Is presence enough to realize our true nature?