Sadhguru about "life is a dream"? Confusion

[billiesimon]

This is the video.

 

Of course he says that thoughts and emotions are "dreamlike" and illusions, but he also says that life itself is real.

I don't understand. A lot of spiritual traditions actually state that life is an illusion and a "manifestation" of the universal Consciousness. So it is just mind and fantasy.

@Leo Gura too describes in his experience life and reality as a dreamlike state, made of Consciousness' capacity to manifest.

Why does Sadhguru say that, apart from thoughts and emotions, life is real?

[Inliytened1]

He isn't disagreeing.  He is just saying that when in a particular dream that is what is real for you.   (Imagination IS reality)  Therefore there is no difference between the dreams you have at night or this waking dream.  

Am i a man dreaming i am the butterfly or am i the butterfly dreaming i am the man.  Neither is less real than the other.    Reality is groundless.

[Tanz]

The experience of life is what is real.  The thoughts and emotions are not.  In other words, direct experience smelling a flower, tasting a peach, smelling the fresh spring air is LIFE.    

The butterfly dreaming I am a man is a badass analogy and hard to disprove once you experience life as Sadhguru describes

Edited February 26, 2020 by Tanz

[billiesimon]

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

The experience of life is what is real.  The thoughts and emotions are not.  In other words, direct experience smelling a flower, tasting a peach, smelling the fresh spring air is LIFE.    

The butterfly dreaming I am a man is a badass analogy and hard to disprove once you experience life as Sadhguru describes

But what I don't understand is.. The butterfly dreaming of being a man is a real experience? Does he mean that? 

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

But what I don't understand is.. The butterfly dreaming of being a man is a real experience? Does he mean that? 

Your mind is still creating a duality between imagination and reality.  Collapse that duality.

[Leo Gura]

To be technical about it, there is no difference between life being a dream and life being real.

Reality = dream

So you can say the glass is half full or half empty and both are right.

He is just telling you the glass is half full.

[billiesimon]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

To be technical about it, there is no difference between life being a dream and life being real.

Reality = dream

So you can say the glass is half full or half empty and both are right.

He is just telling you the glass is half full.

Ok, now I get it. It's just a duality to see imagination opposed to reality. In nonduality they are the same I guess.

[Forestluv]

@billiesimon When a person is conditioned to perceive and identify to only one side of a duality, the awakening comes from realization of the other side of the duality (and then realization both sides are the same). For example, if someone believed waking life is "real" and dreams are "imagined". It would be most helpful to show them that waking life is "imagined". They already have the "real" part down - they don't need any help realizing waking life is "real". That would actually be counter-productive since it would re-enforce their attachment/identification to that side of the duality. For them, the awakening comes from realizing waking life is "imagined". On the flip side, the person is already aware that dreams are "imagined" - the awakening comes with seeing that dreams are also "real". With this awareness, the duality between "real vs imagined" can dissolve.

99.999% of humans are programmed that "sober" waking life is "real" and "altered" mindstates like dreams and psychedelics are "imagined". Very few people are programmed for the opposite orientation. Just look on this forum: how many people believe that psychedelic states are "real" and the sober state is "imagined"? I would say noone. The vast majority of people are questioning how "real" psychedelic states are. 

I've only met two people in my life with a nearly reverse orientation - and both are getting re-conditioned to believe waking life is "real". The first is my niece. She is a master dreamer and has created a dream reality that is more real than her waking life. While awake, this has caused all sorts of problems. She has various anxiety disorders and various psycho-somatic issues including recurring migraine headaches, nausea and vomiting. She has received years of therapy trying to get her grounded that waking life is "real". . . . The second person was a non-speaking autistic whose default state was nonduality. It took him 10+ years of practice and training to awaken to duality. . . Both cases are the opposite orientation of 99.999% of people. . . I've also met several people that are natural hybrids - the have an ability to "flip" back and forth, yet preferences one side. I think they would have an advantage in that they 90% of the way there starting off.  

[DreamScape]

 

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

She is a master dreamer and has created a dream reality that is more real than her waking life. While awake, this has caused all sorts of problems. She has various anxiety disorders and various psycho-somatic issues including recurring migraine headaches, nausea and vomiting. She has received years of therapy trying to get her grounded that waking life is "real". . . . The second person was a non-speaking autistic whose default state was nonduality. It took him 10+ years of practice and training to awaken to duality. . .

Wow.. That's insane. Never heard a person's story more interesting than THAT.

[Red-White-Light]

@billiesimon Sadhguru has put emotions and thoughts into the category of concepts. Concepts of reality aren't really life itself. Rather life is actuality.

8 hours ago, billiesimon said:

Why does Sadhguru say that, apart from thoughts and emotions, life is real?

 

[billiesimon]

29 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@billiesimon When a person is conditioned to perceive and identify to only one side of a duality, the awakening comes from realization of the other side of the duality (and then realization both sides are the same). For example, if someone believed waking life is "real" and dreams are "imagined". It would be most helpful to show them that waking life is "imagined". They already have the "real" part down - they don't need any help realizing waking life is "real". That would actually be counter-productive since it would re-enforce their attachment/identification to that side of the duality. For them, the awakening comes from realizing waking life is "imagined". On the flip side, the person is already aware that dreams are "imagined" - the awakening comes with seeing that dreams are also "real". With this awareness, the duality between "real vs imagined" can dissolve.

99.999% of humans are programmed that "sober" waking life is "real" and "altered" mindstates like dreams and psychedelics are "imagined". Very few people are programmed for the opposite orientation. Just look on this forum: how many people believe that psychedelic states are "real" and the sober state is "imagined"? I would say noone. The vast majority of people are questioning how "real" psychedelic states are. 

I've only met two people in my life with a nearly reverse orientation - and both are getting re-conditioned to believe waking life is "real". The first is my niece. She is a master dreamer and has created a dream reality that is more real than her waking life. While awake, this has caused all sorts of problems. She has various anxiety disorders and various psycho-somatic issues including recurring migraine headaches, nausea and vomiting. She has received years of therapy trying to get her grounded that waking life is "real". . . . The second person was a non-speaking autistic whose default state was nonduality. It took him 10+ years of practice and training to awaken to duality. . . Both cases are the opposite orientation of 99.999% of people. . . I've also met several people that are natural hybrids - the have an ability to "flip" back and forth, yet preferences one side. I think they would have an advantage in that they 90% of the way there starting off.  

Very interesting. Yeah, I'm definitely in the category of "psychedelics are vain dreams"  when I'm using them I feel in a magical and unified reality, where there's love and pure interconnection. But after a psych trip I always get an ego backlash of feeling that reality is actually really crude and dumb like the concrete of the streets. Spiritual experiences tend to give me the loving side that I needed and that my scientific paradigm was denying me. It's actually a really amazing process.

By the way, really shocking story about your niece 

[Nahm]

@billiesimon

I think he’s suggesting one is asleep, in the unconscious creating of thought & emotion, living through an idea of ‘me’ and a world of maya, while ‘Life’ is the pointer to ‘Self’. I wonder if the guy who asked conceptualized it as of the world, of Sadhguru, or received it as of himself. If he did, I’d guess he now sees a nuance between the dream of thinking & emotion (unconscious), and the dream of reality ‘as it actually is’ (Consciousness). As references to that nuance, ‘mind & fantasy’ are ‘made of’, but are not the same as, Mind & Fantasy, relative to the guy who asked. 

[Tanz]

7 hours ago, billiesimon said:

But what I don't understand is.. The butterfly dreaming of being a man is a real experience? Does he mean that? 

Thoughts would imply that there is a separation to begin with, which makes thoughts itself to be a materialistic paradigm.  When experiencing LIFE you would not have any idea that you are anything other than the observer experiencing that moment.  The thought that you are a butterfly, a man, a woman, a tree does not matter because what you are experiencing is the only thing that matters because its the only thing that is real.