I don't find many enlightened professionals.

[Corpus]

1 minute ago, Ibn Sina said:

I was thinking that you said , given the same situation and condition, the enlightened doctor would make mistake while the stage orange would not, but what you are saying is both of them have equal chance of making a mistake.

I am saying, how would it be worse to be an enlightened doctor in above case? Wouldn't it better?

A doctor who focuses the 10000 hours on studying medicine his enlightened colleague spent doing self-enquiry is likely to have 10000 more hours of medical knowledge ,  with a bigger knowledge base to draw upon. I would therefore think his chances of making a mistake would be lower.

A truly enlightened doctor is one who values truth, and is probably doing less clinical practise in a system which is not fit for purpose. He would be able to do this by living his life to avoid wage slavery and have enough self-awareness to move away from an abusive system which is haemorrhaging doctors and where the suicide rate should be a cause of concern. 

[Ibn Sina]

1 minute ago, enderx7 said:

this is true but It wont always be and it is in the process of changing right now but it will probably play out very very slowly. I like the example Leo used in spiral dynamics about your societies development level being as the center of gravity or mass. In America, being centermass orange, if you are under the development of orange you will effortlessly find yourself sucked up the spiral to orange level. But if your trying go multiple stages past orange to reach turquoise(non dual consciousness) its going to be like trying to trying to get a rocket to leave earth, your going to have to overcome tremendous gravitational pressure and need some powerful rocket fuel.

Good point

[Ibn Sina]

1 minute ago, Corpus said:

He would be able to do this by living his life to avoid wage slavery and have enough self-awareness to move away from an abusive system which is haemorrhaging doctors and where the suicide rate should be a cause of concern

I feel sorry for your situation. 

 

[Corpus]

1 minute ago, Ibn Sina said:

I feel sorry for your situation. 

 

Don't be.

Living his life to avoid wage slavery?- Check.

Enough self-awareness to move away from an abusive system? Check.

Doing less clinical practise? Check.

Values truth? Check.

Enlightened? Not yet.

[Ibn Sina]

8 minutes ago, Corpus said:

Don't be.

Living his life to avoid wage slavery?- Check.

Enough self-awareness to move away from an abusive system? Check.

Doing less clinical practise? Check.

Values truth? Check.

Enlightened? Not yet

See, that's because of your time spent on spirituality and awareness. You have become a healthier person and a doctor, and I am sure you are not less efficient in your work. Anybody else wouldn't have made those checks.
In a sense you have it 'better' than a normal doc.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Corpus]

6 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

See, that's because of your time spent on spirituality and awareness. You have become a healthier person and a doctor, and I am sure you are not less efficient in your work. Anybody else wouldn't have made those checks.
In a sense you have it 'better' than a normal doc.

Its because I realised the iniquity and servitude of being in debt since starting to earn, and whilst colleagues were renting flash flats and buying fast cars I took advantage of shitty but free accommodation for 8 years, saved my wages, paid a good deposit on a home then worked pretty much 6-7 days every week to pay off the mortgage in less than 7 years, cut my hours dramatically and am now taking it easy.

I have it better than most doctors who construct an egoic prison for themselves which compels them to keep turning up to work to finance a lifestyle which doesn't really satisfy them. 

Awareness can be nurtured when one is off the treadmill of work-earn-spend-sleep and repeat till you die or crack-up.

Take-home message folks- understand what debt means.

[Matt8800]

3 hours ago, Ibn Sina said:

All I see is 'enlightened masters' and the only thing great about them is that they are enlightened. They only talk about spirituality, how to be enlightened 24/7. There are monks and sannyasins who have dedicated their entire life for meditation and enlightenment.

I find this very problematic. There should be enlightened doctors, enlightened politicians, enlightened columnists, chess grandmasters and  politicians. 
Spirituality should penetrate into the dual, only then can it be really meaningful and powerful.

The world cannot be run only by monks. Not everyone can go and dedicate 24 hours on spirituality. That would be the collapse of economy, there would be no buisnessmen, programmers, engineers, pilots. 

But what it looks like is that spirituality is a 24 job, and if you want to be enlightened then you have no choice to but to go all in. But its not possible for everyone.
And also I don't think that it's impossible to have 'enlightened professionals who make good money'. It's just about having the right balance. It's easy to pull off at least 10,000 hours of intense spirituality and psychedelic training by the end of your life, no matter which profession you are in.

My rational mind says its not impossible, but empirically I don't find many such people.

@Ibn Abbas Yes, that is why I take the Tantric path rather than the path of asceticism. Its a path full of awe and beauty. Its said in ancient texts it is a faster route to enlightenment but can be more risky. I would recommend a book: Desire - the tantric path to awakening. 

If you decide you eventually want to work with occult abilities, the occult and tantra are basically the same path and fit well together.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Matt8800

[tedens]

1 hour ago, Ibn Sina said:

I am not sure you are 100% enlightened. 

But I'm.

[wavydude]

58 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

LOL, you have not understood my question, but that was hilarious.

I don't think you understood my answer.
The enlightened people are like 0.001% of society if they decide to go public with their enlioghtement then obviously they become a teacher if we had like 50% of enlightened population we wouldn't need that much teachers and you would have them do whatever else is needed.

Also there are people who decide to not share their realization maybe your bus driver is enlightened and you'll never know.

[Ibn Sina]

12 hours ago, wavydude said:

I don't think you understood my answer.
The enlightened people are like 0.001% of society if they decide to go public with their enlioghtement then obviously they become a teacher if we had like 50% of enlightened population we wouldn't need that much teachers and you would have them do whatever else is needed.

Also there are people who decide to not share their realization maybe your bus driver is enlightened and you'll never know.

What you have written is nothing profound or complex ,though your ego may think what  you have written is something revolutionary.. A 10 year old can come up with that. My question is asking something deeper which you apparently are not seeing. 

I am talking about a hypothetical scenario (where everyone adoped the Monk model of spirituality). All I am saying in the post is that this 'trend' of enlightened masters who are like asccetics and zen monks cannot be sustained and we need a new model.

I am talking about the current 'trend' that we are seeing and we need to do something about it.
While you are saying , this is obvious and the current situation is how it should  be. You say 'obviously' they would  be teachers, that is very black and white thinking, without any further depth. And also it has got nothing to do with what I am saying in my post.
Me and Leo (as told by Aakash) express a need for this change, while you are saying obviously this is the case and nothing wrong with that.
 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Truth Addict]

@Ibn Sina

The good news is that everyone is enlightened.

The bad news is that you're the only obstacle.

Life is harsh whether everyone is "enlightened" according to your ideals or not.

It cannot get any better. I mean it certainly can but you will not be able to see it because you are the obstacle to that seeing. In other words, once you have succeeded in applying the changes you want, you will start chasing another goal, you will start seeking another change, and so on for the rest of your life.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Ibn Sina]

5 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

I mean it certainly can but you will not be able to see it because you are the obstacle to that seeing

What exactly do you mean by that.

If I am enlightened then there is no me, if  there  is  no me, how can I be an obstacle for anything?

[Truth Addict]

Just now, Ibn Sina said:

What exactly do you mean by that.

If I am enlightened then there is no me, if  there  is  no me, how can I be an obstacle for anything?

It's a paradox.

Focus on yourself, not others. Everyone is enlightened, except you. You are the only deluded one here.

(I apply this to myself).

[wavydude]

31 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

What you have written is nothing profound or complex ,though your ego may think what  you have written is something revolutionary.. A 10 year old can come up with that. My question is asking something deeper which you apparently are not seeing. 

You making it harder than it is, I just gave you answer to your question but looks like you're looking for something profound and complex not for the truth.

[Ibn Sina]

4 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

It's a paradox.

Focus on yourself, not others. Everyone is enlightened, except you. You are the only deluded one here.

May be it is like a koan like the zen monks ponder upon.

I am not interested in koans.

[Truth Addict]

6 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

May be it is like a koan like the zen monks ponder upon.

I am not interested in koans.

Then maybe you'll never be able to live up to your vision.

Your view is so contracted, and you want to see other people enlightened while having a profession? Perhaps that's why there aren't many enlightened professionals to begin with, because they're just like you, they want others to work and make the world a better place while they're lazy to even entertain a piece of wisdom.

The main reason for why there aren't many professionals in the world is because they're focused on others more than on themselves.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Ibn Sina]

Just now, wavydude said:

I just gave you answer to your question but looks like you're looking for something profound and complex not for the truth.

There are only 2 logical ways to answer my post.

The first one is-
Yes, this is the situation, and this  has to change. And that can happen if x can happen, which can happen if y can happen and so on....

Second one is-

No  , the current model is the right model. 'Enlightened professionals' is not a practical idea. This is because ______.

Those reasonings take knowledge , education and deep thought.

Fundamentally,  my question is, whether the current spirituality model is right or not.

I am making the claim that on a large scale, this model cannot be sustained.

So the answer should be, whether the current model should be changed or  not.

What you said isn't wrong, but it doesn't add  anything new.

[Ibn Sina]

5 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Then maybe you'll never be able to live up to your vision.

Your view is so contracted, and you want to see other people enlightened while having a profession? Perhaps that's why there aren't many enlightened professionals to begin with, because they're just like you, they want others to work and make the world a better place while they're lazy to even entertain a piece of wisdom.

The main reason for why there aren't many professionals in the world is because they're focused on others more than on themselves

Yes, you might be right. ( Who knows?)

[Truth Addict]

Just now, Ibn Sina said:

Yes, you might be right. ( Who knows?)

You 'knows'.

[Ibn Sina]

10 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

You 'knows'

Leo did not become enlightened by koans. He took the 5-Meo.