Psychedelics, what are they? Why do they work?

[Chi_]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All this talk of brains is ultimately wrong. The brain is literally a hallucination and you cannot explain the causes because reality is uncaused, amechanical, and totally direct.

The cause of everything is YOU! You imagine everything into being. Including your brain, 5-MeO-DMT, lobsters, and Leo.

At the highest levels of consciousness there is just you imagining the whole world into being. The end.

Do not try to shoehorn enlightenment into a scientific scheme. Science is a hallucination too.

What do you think of this perspective?

 

All the talks about how psychedelics work on the brain are just how an experience on a higher level of consciousness manifests itself on a lower level consciousness? In this case, the non-dual experience manifests itself on the body, which is at a physical level of consciousness, as chemicals and brain receptors? Just like how your feelings feel very real to you but on the level of your body, it manifests itself as hormones or chemicals in your brain.  I mean, the deep enlightening experiences on a psychedelic should somehow probably manifest itself on the level of the body, right? So the scientific community concluding that there is nothing more to psychedelics than receptors in your brain seem quite ignorant if you think this way. 

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Chi_

[Dylan Page]

@Enlightenment I'd like to hear @Leo Gura 's response to this. It does seem he is claiming solipsism, but I also don't see why solipsism is bad. There are a lot of axioms to believing that it is bad. 

[Dylan Page]

@Enlightenment What is your view of science and logic? Theories and models can never encompass reality without contradiction. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Enlightenment said:

No serious scientist will take you seriously with this attitude. 

"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

Luckily I'm conscious that scientists are also just part of my own imagination. So it all works out

Truth is prior to evidence.

[Anton_Pierre]

@Dylan Page Scientists understand through dissection. You can dissect a cake for example by slicing it with the knife of intellect, however you will never know the cake holistically. Furthermore you have made a distinction between the cake (appearance) and other appearances (table, chair, flowers), so that's another dissection. You then have another dissection of yourself from the appearances.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Anton_Pierre

[Aldo]

@Leo Gura  yes first hand experience is the only way to know 5meo dmt. But still scientific research and objective experiments can help us alot when it comes to how it should be used. For example you can learn what type of yoga or meditation is the most suitable for working with psychadelics through science. Or stuf like how often it should be used and the effect it has on your energies.

[Dylan Page]

@Leo Gura what does truth is prior to evidence mean? Also, what do you think of anesthesia? Or sleep? How would you explain lack of awareness?

Edited June 11, 2019 by Dylan Page
Added moee

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Aldo said:

@Leo Gura  yes first hand experience is the only way to know 5meo dmt. But still scientific research and objective experiments can help us alot when it comes to how it should be used. For example you can learn what type of yoga or meditation is the most suitable for working with psychadelics through science. Or stuf like how often it should be used and the effect it has on your energies.

Well of course I do such "science" myself by testing on myself.

You cannot understand 5-MeO by doing it on guinea pigs. You must become your own guinea pig.

Of course there is value to studying the chemistry of it.

But science cannot be used to explain nonduality.

10 minutes ago, Dylan Page said:

@Leo Gura what does truth is prior to evidence mean?

I have explained this many times in the past.

You can have truth without proof, but you cannot have proof without truth.

The domain of truth is much larger than the domain of proof. There are many things which are true which cannot ever be proven with evidence. Because all evidence is indirect.

Quote

Also, what do you think of anesthesia? Or sleep? How would you explain lack of awareness?

You are imagining lack of awareness. Right now you are aware, imagining that you will one day lose awareness. That is imagination. You are confusing your thoughts of the future for reality. You're not aware that all future is conceptual and happening right now (as an image).

The future is an image in the present. That's what future IS!

[Jkris]

@Dylan Page-

Truth is prior to evidence means truth God Is prior to creation.So before creation what meaning science can have ? What science can talk about ?

Awareness is always there.

How do you know you were sleep ? You know that you were aware of body mind prior to sleep.And you are able to say that you was not aware of body mind during sleep ?

So who is aware of the sleep  Or in other words the who is aware of the absence of experience ?

(Same is the case with anesthesia).

Edited June 11, 2019 by Jkris

[Dylan Page]

@Jkris One of the things I used to comfort myself with about death is that lack of awareness is not an active process as there is no one to experience nothingness. If you were to ever wake up again, it would happen instantly, because you have no perception of time in a consciousless state. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Dylan Page

[Dylan Page]

@Leo Gura Yeah it looks like I have a long ass way to go. All I really care about is truth and love. My only problem is that when I come across people that say something that I don’t know how to disprove, I freak the fuck out because of the possibility that they might be right, and the following implications. People like Dan Dennett or Lawrence Krauss literally made me lose like 10 pounds because my anxiety was preventing me from eating. I don’t understand how they can be comfortable with believing the things that they believe. 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Dylan Page said:

People like Dan Dennett or Lawrence Krauss literally made me lose like 10 pounds because my anxiety was preventing me from eating. I don’t understand how they can be comfortable with believing the things that they believe.

They are just fools. Don't even listen to them.

In this work you must be ruthless with cutting out bullshit. Once you know a source is bullshit, don't waste your time on it.

I have never met a single scientist or philosopher who understands Truth or Love. So don't get distracted by their nonsense. Truth & Love is deeper than any science or philosophy can go.

Direct experience is the only source of Truth & Love. Other people cannot help you because you have to turn inward to realize you ARE Truth & Love.

There exists nothing in reality but YOU! YOU! YOU!

If you don't grasp yourself, you're fucked because there's no one else here but you!

[Dylan Page]

@Leo Gura Yeah,  I should really keep a journal for myself and write down every time I think someone is saying something stupid. I absolutely don’t want to kid myself when it comes to truth. I want to research all of the greatest thinkers that have opinions on this kind of stuff and rigorously find flaws in their arguments. I want to cut out bullshit but I don’t want to be too quick to write people off either. It’s just amazing that people can believe certain things that are so logically inconsistent and stick with them. I’m constantly looking for truth because I’ve never remained satisfied with anyone’s answer, ever. Not to say I’m not satisfied with yours, because I haven’t wrapped my head around yours yet. 

[Inliytened1]

@Dylan Page it isn't his. 

It just Is.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Dylan Page]

@Inliytened1 well.. you know what I mean lol. I’m talking about what he is trying to teach/communicate. 

[Inliytened1]

He's you teaching yourself