People confuse knowing a bunch of unrelated concepts with self actualization.

[CreamCat]

You might know a bunch of concepts. But, you may embody 0.1% of it.

You might even have wasted time on a bunch of unrelated concepts that are irrelevant to self actualization and confuse them with actual self-actualizing. I see some people do that. One can waste 10 years on irrelevant stuff and think one is now developed.

If you overestimate the level of your self-actualization, trying to raise others' consciousness can easily backfire or can prove futile. Even nazis were thinking that they were raising their consciousness by learning nazism and killing people.

Focus on improving yourself first before thinking about helping others in any profound way. Until you become developed, you help yourself. Self-help.

Edited May 10, 2019 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

Don't disparage knowledge. Knowledge is the first step, and it is an important step. But of course it is only the beginning. Proper knowledge will save your ass many times in the future.

[Bill W]

I guess one pitfall is deciding what you want to believe and then going around collecting "knowledge" that supports your chosen belief. "Knowledge" that contradicts your chosen belief is then dismissed, often dismissed in such a discreet way that you yourself don't even know you are dismissing it. I used to go around collecting knowledge. I still do. But I am trying (and often failing) to obtain or develop is a better word, the actual wisdom that makes the knowledge useful. 

[Joseph Maynor]

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Great theory and great practice need to marry and have a baby together.  That's the secret.  Don't pooh pooh theory or practice, they gotta be integrated.  Great practice only becomes possible with great theory.  It's the paradox of theory and practice and you gotta work both ends of this paradox.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[ivory]

18 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It's the paradox of theory and practice and you gotta work both ends of this paradox.

How is this a paradox?

[Joseph Maynor]

36 minutes ago, ivory said:

How is this a paradox?

It's not really a paradox in the strong sense.  But for a lot of people it is a paradox.  A lot of people are stuck in their heads too much and don't take enough action.  Other people take a lot of action but are not in their heads enough.  So, in that sense it's a duality that needs to be integrated.  It's a weak duality, but still functions sorta like a duality.  There's an integration of theory and practice that needs to be attained in personal development work.  

Video on point to watch for you folks who are stuck in your head at the expense of taking action:

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[ivory]

@Joseph Maynor I totally get that

[CreamCat]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't disparage knowledge. Knowledge is the first step, and it is an important step. But of course it is only the beginning. Proper knowledge will save your ass many times in the future.

I'm sure knowledge is important. The problem is that some people learn "irrelevant" knowledge and confuse it with progress in self actualization or some other areas of life.

In other words, the problems are

• Misapplication of knowledge
  • Knowledge "A" doesn't fit situation "B".
• Learning irrelevant knowledge.
  • You might think you are learning A, but you are actually learning B.
• Lack of embodiment

One should learn "proper" knowledge rather than "irrelevant" knowledge and apply "proper" knowledge to "fitting" situations. Once you identify "proper" knowledge for appropriate situations, you can work on embodiment.

For example, some people on this forum seem to mistakenly believe that being angry about political issues helps oneself with self actualization when, in reality, acceptance(e.g., not getting angry) is self actualization. They often confuse political knowledge with self actualization.

I think it's devilry. Since devil doesn't actually want to actualize oneself, it finds ways to mistakenly believe that something else is self-actualization and waste time on it. Devil is a master of distraction and self-deception. Devil is good at distracting oneself from self-actualization.

Some people also confuse religious events with spirituality. Attending a bunch of religious events is not going to make you any more actualized than you are now. One may confuse choir with spirituality because listening to choir feels good. Whatever feels good to the devil is spirituality, right?

Edited May 11, 2019 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat I don't know what exactly self-actualization contains without making up a definition. I listened to the .... original audiobook from Maslow sometime ago and the pyramid is explained everywhere. 

The point is with... spiral dynamics at stage yellow it is a different kind of political anger, it is more of intense indignation about the political situation(which is more impersonal it's not an anger which involves ones idea of one self for instance imo), values etc. It's not a psychological rant to reduce stress by cursing. 

The whole point about devilry is that that a devil in zen is everything that stands in your practice so theoretically, everything is a devil. My homework assignments, my schedule, my family, my cat, social media, internet, ted talks etc. 

Yet, it is also practice in a sense that if ones want ultimately to become the ... ultimate atman, brahman or god then it has to be in daily life and every second to some degree, otherwise it's fragmented. 
 

33 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Some people also confuse religious events with spirituality. Attending a bunch of religious events is not going to make you any more actualized than you are now.

No way, that is going to happen. That is why I disliked church I grew up agnostic/Catholic. Then I read in a book that going to a church or religious event let's say increase serotonin and oxytocin, so bla bla you feel more bonded to others. Singing in a group and doing group activities. No, it's not self-actualization in the sense of becoming a greater version of one's self. Personal growth, fulfillment, success, happiness, health, wealth, inner freedom, luxury w/e. 

The point I want to make is, that I would not understand what you would regard as proper knowledge for self-actualization. Yet, I am highly curious. Because I've been listening to mostly advanced teachings and have to get the fundamentals in place, in order to grow more. What I've been doing or started doing only this year more. For instance financial situation, yet there are just things I can't do poop about, so I want to work on other parts.

Edited May 11, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[CreamCat]

21 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

I would not understand what you would regard as proper knowledge for self-actualization.

For example, many of Leo's videos about spirituality and basic Orange self-help. Jim Kwik's videos about morning routine and basic life fundamentals are also examples of self-actualization.

I don't have a precise definition.

You seem to be more advanced than I am in the topic of self-actualization.

Edited May 11, 2019 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat That is exactly the point to integrate it all. It sounds nuts, and sort of is. Like question sanity on an LSD trip. 

Just imagine the following scenario you sit somewhere on a bridge in 400 ad or so correct me if I am wrong. And you just sit and meditate, no sense of self-actualization etc. You are basically useless to society, people would potentially rob you and steal money from you, kill you if they are some delinquents.

How nuts do you actually have to be to sit there ones whole life and do nothing? 

Yet, it could radically change ones live if applied strategically. Like, see any study. In that form itself, meditation is a self-actualization practice.

I watched the videos about Jim Qwik and liked them a lot and want to get my brainberries, which they did not have today. Yes, a lot of people lack stage orange aspects, I lack for instance a lot of stage blue. With discipline and truth, hard work and discipline so I watched a lot of JP and took the big 5 and watched his lessons and opinions on the model since he knows the literature. 

Today we had a guest talk at out uni from a dr dr in medicine and psychology, a very hard-nosed guy a 5-star talker which is apparently very rare, solely came today through connections. Tbh I liked his talk a lot how the use of smartphones etc. influence grades, brain growth and he showed solid studies. Within an "academic" ( I am making a bit fun of my uni) audience. Still, this was a for me very high-green talk value wise. Very egalitarian, no drive for using excellence while being aware, not using the linguistic toolbox for instance. Yet, destroyed every freaking question since he was extremely knowledgeable about statistics, medicine etc. For instance, there were teachers in the audience complaining that Germany spends 5 billion on digital whiteboards, and the classes and kids complained as the teachers that they want the blackboard. He mentioned a study of people in silicon valley from universities there in cs, that they preferred blackboards, while they have to work with computers. So, it was a hefty investment into digitalization, which is even harmful, for the development of the brain and did not pay out.

Now the point about knowledge for me after contemplating on LSD mostly, so take this with a gigantic grain of salt is. It is way harder to let go of it, then to attach to it or gain more, if you want to follow a spiritual path. Knowledge is survival, and yes proper or applicable knowledge is meant. Otherwise, it's mostly trivia. Yet, I understood how this mechanism worked on LSD way better, since it is just nuts to let go of it. 

The same as doing nothing the whole time. 

So, if I want to contribute to humanity in some way I also need orange advice and knowledge for survival and contribution. What I don' get that if you understand this so perfectly you can see with which members to interact and not. I would not even bother to discuss and mention it, because most people resist change anyway.

So, yes working on myself to raise others consciousness, for example, is better than claiming omg I reached stage xyz and become and enlightened guru I will raise peoples consciousness. Sam Harris audiobook or book Waking Up as a beautiful example from a retreat in Tibet. With a person claiming she Never has One thought again and was enlightened. Then he debunked her.. in the plane making her or him realize it again. The person was shocked.

I don't embody most of the things some are just way to advanced like ... http://www.perspegrity.com/papers/STAGES background_Murray.pdf ( which I just found and explains the research behind self-identity and so on), yet chopping away at it diligently helps and also improves life quality. So, I really don't understand there is not much to complain about or why mentioned it, I sure do to, but mostly with people in real life and then I talk about it with friends. Online it's just worthless. 






 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat Thank you for the compliment. I resonated with the topic a lot for some reason.

I like the Avengers  and the superhero hype + north mythology!  I would recommend that you purchase Leo's booklist, especially if you are into science all of the topics there I will most likely catch up in the future or in a given time to some degree. Since I assume from responding that you like science a lot.

A lot of PD seems basic, yet somehow it is a Sisyphus task. Or a pleasant version of it. The only thing that I am consistent in is reflection and meditation, which helps a lot. Now, gym and nutrition more which aids discipline, especially with meditation in the morning. Having a daily pratice is key, a meditation retreat is the best practical solution. If you like the theoretical aspect I would recommend listening to shinzen young, so you won't most likely not get bored. 

P.S Yes you are god. In training... with reference...

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[CreamCat]

1 hour ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

a Sisyphus task. Or a pleasant version of it

A pleasant sisyphus task?

[Shadowraix]

You are basically saying people need to clear up ignorance. But ignorance wouldn't be ignorance if they were aware of it. The purification of ignorance is a life long process. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

A guy in hell having to roll up a stone a hill each day as his task to be free for the day. From Greek mythology. 

[CreamCat]

39 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@CreamCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

A guy in hell having to roll up a stone a hill each day as his task to be free for the day. From Greek mythology. 

Devil lives in hell. God lives in heaven.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat Why do you say that?

The devil was a fallen angel, a neutral being that responded to request of the living in exchange for something. 

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, CreamCat said:

Devil lives in hell. God lives in heaven.

And yet God lives in hell and the Devil lives in heaven at the same time.  

[CreamCat]

2 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@CreamCat Why do you say that?

The devil was a fallen angel, a neutral being that responded to request of the living in exchange for something. 

To a devil, the universe is a hell because the devil can die any time in the universe.

To God, the universe is a heaven and a playground for itself. To a perfectly immortal being who's infinitely fascinated by itself, the universe is literally a heaven.

Devil envies and hates God.

That's how the theory goes.

Edited May 11, 2019 by CreamCat