My Experience With Thought-less Mind. Bursting Myths. And Need Some Advice.

[Derek White]

I'll try to be as succinct as possible time but this post needs to be long, so bear with me.

I was introduced to the idea of a thought-less state of mind by my grade 4 drama teacher who challenged us to sit for a certain period of time and not think.  Of course I failed at that time. But the desire to reach such a state lingered on. I got into spirituality, so to speak, about 5 years ago to solve very basic, day-to-day problems. As time went on I got more and more into it and wanted to have complete control over my mind and part of that included to experience thought-less state off mind. 

Long story short, I finally achieved thoughtlessness about 1.5 or 2 years ago. I won't go into the details but I will say the way to do it is to let go and just observe your thoughts and they will eventually go away. Also, seeing the limitations of thought and focusing on external objects like sounds helps in the beginning but you won't need them after a while; you would just be able to do it immediately. I started with Sandeep Maheshwari's Sound of Silence meditation but didn't need it afterwards. Also, Initially it can also be very depressing and empty experience.

Anyway, for the past 1.5 years I practiced it whenever I got the chance. I didn't really have any desire to think. I just wanted to experience being or directly experience reality. So on average, I would sit alone with eyes closed and have 20 to 45 min. of silence (no words or images in the mind), 3 to 4 times a day and throughout the day I would have very low frequency of thoughts and certainly no thinking (chain of thoughts). They would appear and then just vanish. I think my experience with this is a little different from what I expected and heard people talk about, so it might sound strange to you. 

 

What my experience was like: 

Pros:

• Happiness
• Relaxation
• Better Body Awareness (helped cured my nasal congestion which drugs and steroids could not cure)
• No stress
• Clarity of perception (less confusion)
• Intense emotions when seeing something beautiful like a movie or a poem

Cons:

• Forgetfulness, I use to have a strong memory but this practice for some reason really crippled it.  
• Difficulty getting back to thinking (it's like changing gears)
  • Difficulty doing math and other academic subjects
  • Hard time expressing myself
• Hard time planning for the future as you're so engrossed in the moment
• Meaninglessness  (really both a pro and a con)  which leads to laziness, and dispassion but not in a depressing way

 

So without wasting time here are some insights I gained:

Thought-less State = Increased awareness/ observation

Thought-less State = Relaxation and peace of mind and happiness and love

Thought-less State = Increased difference between mind, body, and you

Thought-less State ≠ Infinite intelligence

Thought-less State ≠ Understanding

Thought-less State ≠ Solution to practical problems 

Thought-less State ≠ End Goal

And

Thinking = Solution to practical problems

Thinking = Learning from experiences 

Thinking = Understanding

 

A few months back I was watching a podcast where some athletes were talking about achieving no-mind while performing their sport and how it will improve their sporting careers, though they think actual no-mind is not possible, they want to get as close to it as possible. It may work for athletes who don't really need to use their mind in their craft but if you're a uni. student you should not aspire to it too much. A math question won't solve itself if you just stare at it and you won't get any insight into the question by just sitting there staring. You need to actually use thinking. Thinking is a very important tool, it's there for a reason. It is probably one thing that separates us form other living things. 

Thoughtlessness is useful for observations ,but to put those observations to good use you need thinking. 

I was inspired by Sadhguru's stories, one of which is when Vivekananda holds a book in his hand and after about half an hour know every page of the book by heart without even opening it. He is always talking about how he does stuff without mind and thinking. Also, other stories of his and many other teachers who talk about this state. 

I think it is a trap to think thoughtless state of mind is a solution to all your problems and an end goal. I don't think this state is any special and most people probably have experienced it before and are just not aware of it. But I didn't experience any new forms of perception or have any ground breaking insights or infinite intelligence or see ghosts or energy or break the boundaries of my sensations or read people's minds or become another object like people claim...

Doing it too much made it hard for me to think properly. It is as difficult to go from excessive non-thinking to thinking. Non- thinking is like an addiction, same as thinking. It also had a negative impact on my memory. This ultimately had a very bad impact on my university life. 

So in the end, I would like to request people who have experienced this state of mind to share their experience below. 

Also I would like to know, from people who have actually experienced this state, whether to continue with this or not since it is affecting my uni. life or if I am even doing it right?

Edited April 30, 2019 by Derek White

[zeroISinfinity]

Depersonalization, derealization, lazyness, meaninglessness, difficulty talking to people. Felt like a camera walking around. Loss of sexual desires loss of desire to socialize to read watch tv. But it's Just a phase hope I get over it. Think it was because we are supressing mind dunno. 

[who chit]

What you are,has nothing to do with thinking or non-thinking. What is you, is ever present in thinking and non-thinking. Thought and no thought are experiences within the vast, silent reality that you are.
Identification with a state, whether it is a state of thinking or no thinking is the problem, as what you are, is beyond states of mind,thought or no thought. In problem solving, what is you, is not affected, ever present, and never lost unless you identify what you are,with the state of mind being experienced.

You are the underlying reality in all experience, yet remain unaffected by it.
In thinking or no thinking, you are the ever present reality in which both happen. Be aware of that ever present reality even in the midst of thinking.

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by who chit

[Jkris]

@Derek White edit your post.It has a long blank in between.

[FoxFoxFox]

double post

Edited April 30, 2019 by FoxFoxFox

[FoxFoxFox]

@Derek White I'm not exactly sure what you experienced - might be Manolaya - because it does share SOME qualities with what people call Samadhi.

To me it sounds like what you experienced was some sort of pleasant stupor - or mind's absorption in the mind - rather than mind's annihilation. 

With annihilation, there is no longer a mind, or math, or questions. 

It's evident from your post that you were only interested in a silent mind rather than enlightenment, and mind control is what you got. With enlightenment, the mind is not controlled, it's destroyed - but funnily enough nothing can be said to be lost. This is paradoxical and only makes sense when you get there. With mind control on the other hand, the ability to rationalize is lost, but the wrong identification with that controlled mind remains. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by FoxFoxFox

[Jkris]

@FoxFoxFox what do you mean by annihilation of mind ?with out mind how can the body function ?

[Jkris]

@who chit thats fine but to realize that one has to reach the thoughtless state and then the nothingness and the permanant vanishing of I feeling isn't it ?

[FoxFoxFox]

@Jkris It will survive by the grace of God. Even right now it is God who is directing the world everywhere. The mind is only thoughts and is not in charge of anything. Wrong identification with the body, which is called the "I-thought" is the cause of this misunderstanding. Search for the mind and it will be annihilated. Annihilation does not mean that something is removed - only a wrong identification no longer occurs. 

[Jkris]

@FoxFoxFox @FoxFoxFox ,???

[Zigzag Idiot]

4 hours ago, Derek White said:

Doing it too much made it hard for me to think properly. It is as difficult to go from excessive non-thinking to thinking. Non- thinking is like an addiction, same as thinking. It also had a negative impact on my memory. This ultimately had a very bad impact on my university life. 

So in the end, I would like to request people who have experienced this state of mind to share their experience below. 

Also I would like to know, from people who have actually experienced this state, whether to continue with this or not since it is affecting my uni. life or if I am even doing it right?

I've had a twice daily practice of Centering Prayer meditation for a couple of years.

In this method objectless awareness or non-conceptual awareness is cultivated. I haven't experienced any compulsions or problems with my memory from this practice. While everything about hasn't been pleasant, I haven't experienced anything that wasn't beneficial.

My introduction and learning was through Cynthia Bourgeaults teachings.

 

[zeroISinfinity]

32 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Jkris It will survive by the grace of God. Even right now it is God who is directing the world everywhere. The mind is only thoughts and is not in charge of anything. Wrong identification with the body, which is called the "I-thought" is the cause of this misunderstanding. Search for the mind and it will be annihilated. Annihilation does not mean that something is removed - only a wrong identification no longer occurs. 

Oh going back into dead automaton phase now again. 

[Derek White]

@Jkris Thanks for letting me know, it should be fixed. 

[Jkris]

@Derek White

@winterknight can you please post your valuable comments in this thread ?

[Derek White]

@who chit You are right. But the question still remains, whether it is any good to be in this state of mind because I don't see much use to be in it. Like I don't see it as practical.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Derek White

[purerogue]

My personal opinion, it is irrelevant , both forms are special and can open you up to new things, why no mind is preached is because it is much easier form ,where learning how to use mind without getting crushed by it is extremely hard, not that there is such thing as no mind, no mind is probably just cutting certain actions of it off, which makes it possible for you to dive deeper in certain areas.  

[Derek White]

@purerogue Have you actually experienced anything unusual by practicing no-mind?

[purerogue]

Just now, Derek White said:

@purerogue Have you actually experienced anything unusual by practicing no-mind?

Yes, allot of unusual things. 

[Derek White]

@purerogue Can you explain a bit more if you don't mind ?

[purerogue]

Just now, Derek White said:

@purerogue Can you explain a bit more if you don't mind ?

Well , there are lots of things that it can be helpful with, like dealing with human traits as fear, judgement, anxiety and so on.

It is useful to focus on other spiritual practices where thoughts get in the way, in general creates less distraction to focus and explore them.

But the main thing that I found interesting about it is that it is the gateway to different logic patterns, if you are in the mind you are so used to your relative logic that it is basically impossible to think outside of it and I am not talking about thinking about deep complex structures of what is nothing, or what is infinity or whatever, I am talking about completely out of this world logic. 

There are ofc other things, I do not like to go to deep into topics as it takes whole day to gather most of the aspects.