Paul92

Struggling

19 posts in this topic

So, yeah, I guess I'm a place where I can't argue much about there being no 'me'. I'm a bunch of atoms that have existed forever. 'My body' replaces itself over and over again. There can't be a 'me', I get it.

But I feel so numb and hopeless. Like seriously.

A lot of people on here know I struggle with my mind. In the illusionary world, I've been diagnosed with OCD. But I don't know if this is an OCD thing or just me struggling with the fact that I don't exist.

I started feeling better a few weeks ago. I told myself, look, I'm a human being, I just inhabit a planet, I don't know why I am here, let's just enjoy it with other people and have a good experience. I'm an animal, like any other, I can just wander about doing what I want. Have some fun and make the best of every day. Eat nice food, have a drink, make jokes, laugh etc.

I met a girl and yes I got attached. I just enjoyed her company. I thought wow, she's someone to enjoy this experience with. Another animal, like me.

But she's not real. Again, a bunch of particles. There's not a single atom in her 'body' that was there when she was born. So she's an illusion. I get it.

It's just hard though, you know? Being a human wasn't perfect, but it had meaning and I felt like I was living. It certainly felt better than whatever this is now.

Leo says enlightenment is when you can stare at your hand long enough and realise it isn't you. Well, I seem to be able to do that pretty easily now. It just makes me feel really sick.

What I don't understand, however, is why bother with the human body. Why create this? If we are just a bunch of particles, why do I find the female form attractive? Why do I have a penis? I know, technically, I don't... but there is SOMETHING there. Why does this 'body' have eyes, ears, nose and a mouth?

But I know there is simple nothing unique about 'me'. It's just hard to come to terms with it. When you spend your entire 'existence' loving people and loving certain things and then you realise that, ultimately, they don't exist, it kinda hurts.

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@Paul92 To me, it seems like you are going from one opposite to the other.  For exampe:

“If duality isn’t true, then nonduality must be true”

”If ‘me’ isn’t true, then ‘not me’ must be true”

Sometimes a mind becomes so attached to one side that it’s helpful to knock it off that side by showing the other side. If the mind becomes aware of the other side, the mind often becomes attached to the other side.

Imagine someone thinks a coin is heads their whole life. What’s the best way to show them the coin isn’t heads? Show them the tails side. But then the person can get attached to the tails side and say “Heads is false! Tails is true!”. But then Heads apoears. So heads must be true and tails false. But then Tails appears again. . , Every time one side appears, the other side disappears. This can cause a lot of confusion and turmoil if a person is not aware they are both the same coin. When heads appears, tails still exists and vice-versa.

Similarly, when “me” appears “no me” still exists and vice-versa. “Me” can love and experience life, while “no me” also exists and is present. 

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Why? Because it's fun. Because it's beautiful. So that you can experience love. What is love without a receiver and a giver? 

You have to learn how to love unconditionally. You have to open your eyes to see the beauty in the illusion and the impermanence. 

You have to become a human limited by form and vulnerabilities to love. But if you don't know yourself as everything you will get so caught up in form that you'll be too afraid to love and never experience it fully. Don't cling so much to truth and fail to let yourself experience the beauty of the illusion. I used this analogy in another thread for someone else but it's perfect here.

You're like a kid at Easter who won't eat his Easter bunny because he doesn't want to destroy it and wants to keep it forever. It's chocolate. It was made for you to eat. Eat the damn Easter bunny and enjoy it. 


Light on Earth The power of love came into me,
and I became fierce like a lion,
then tender like the evening star.” - Rumi

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I preferred living in the illusion. Life had meaning. I felt like an individual. I felt others were individuals and unique. I could invest my time in other people. I could love other people. Laugh with other people. 

Now life has lost its colour. 

I'd say I feel alone but I guess there is no me. 

This experience was much more enjoyable before. Seems like a bit of a sick joke to be honest. 

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18 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

I preferred living in the illusion. Life had meaning. I felt like an individual. I felt others were individuals and unique. I could invest my time in other people. I could love other people. Laugh with other people. 

Now life has lost its colour. 

I'd say I feel alone but I guess there is no me. 

This experience was much more enjoyable before. Seems like a bit of a sick joke to be honest. 

Don't worry, it's just a stage. Don't stop yourself from enjoying life and the illusion in the meantime. The colors will be brighter than ever before, I promise. You're just learning how to see them and experience their beauty without having to name them or having to decide whether you like or don't like them. They are so much better when seen without that lens. The problem is that you've added another lens of thought over them in the meantime because you're thinking about how they aren't really there. Just keep practicing dropping the thoughts and simply experiencing life. Drop the thoughts about how you should be seeing things and try just to actually see them. 


Light on Earth The power of love came into me,
and I became fierce like a lion,
then tender like the evening star.” - Rumi

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3 minutes ago, David Hammond said:

I think the op is stuck in a perspective. What should happen is a sense of mystery and this in turn should open the mind to receive downloads of how to succeed as a healthy ego. Instead there is an ego that thinks it's this or that rather than being fluid accepting truths and rejecting falsehoods 

My point I was trying to make wasn't that anything you said was wrong, I mean it was just two words, it was more that it wasn't helpful.  Like if you really think it's helpful to just point at a man who is having a hard time in his life and say two words "spiritual ego", then you should go run outside like you're jesus and start yelling that at everyone so all their troubles can just melt away.  Of course the op is stuck in some perspective, aren't we all?  I'm just trying to say it seems like you just came to label him and leave without any consideration for how the person is going to react to that statement.  Like what did you actually think the OP was going to think when he read "Spiritual Ego".  To me it just seems unnecessary to have one more person labeling someone who is going through a tough time in their life, he clearly requires a much more human approach to healing, and that is perfectly fine


Comprehensive list of techniques: https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/Home/meditation-practices

I appreciate criticism!  Be as critical/nitpicky as you like and don't hold your blows

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@Paul92 To me it sounds like you are forcing yourself into a decision you don’t need to make.

Illusion = Real. And Real = Illusion.

If you get trapped one side and reject the other, that is separation and life can’t get painful.

 

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maybe try looking at it a different way, instead of "I don't exist" try "I don't exist in the way I used to think that I did"

because "I" as a person don't exist either, yet here I am typing away, thinking about breakfast...

time doesn't exist either, yet my alarm clock went off at 6 am this morning...

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2 minutes ago, David Hammond said:

@zambize Or he could go look the term up?

There are infinate ways to look at it.

It's your dream, do with it what you please ; )

He could go look the term up, but the idea of you posting "spiritual ego" in the comment section, and the OP deciding he needs to go look up the definition, and from that definition decipher how he can fix his life is pretty far fetched from my point of view.  Which should be important for you to know if you were intending on helping him, that you seem to have gotten lazy with actually considering how your message is going to be perceived in favor of that little lollipop your ego gives you when you get the chance to judge someone.  But yeah, there are an infinite many ways you can look at it, that's just mine.  Thank you I will <3


Comprehensive list of techniques: https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/Home/meditation-practices

I appreciate criticism!  Be as critical/nitpicky as you like and don't hold your blows

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It's so hard. It's so cruel. 

The girl I'm seeing. I love loving her and making her feel loved. I wanted to make HER experience as wonderful as possible. Me just spending my time with Her makes my experience wonderful. 

But there is no her, right? 

All I have today is sleep and vomit. I can't even move out of bed for anxiety. What life is this? 

What sort of creator would create such an illusion and cause such suffering? It makes no sense. 

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7 hours ago, Paul92 said:

What I don't understand, however, is why bother with the human body. Why create this? If we are just a bunch of particles, why do I find the female form attractive? Why do I have a penis? I know, technically, I don't... but there is SOMETHING there. Why does this 'body' have eyes, ears, nose and a mouth?

But I know there is simple nothing unique about 'me'. It's just hard to come to terms with it. When you spend your entire 'existence' loving people and loving certain things and then you realise that, ultimately, they don't exist, it kinda hurts.

don't mistake existence as something "you" had a choice in, but know it could not be any other way. It seems you have adopted some beliefs related to your experience giving you a limited perspective. Beliefs don't exist unless you think they do. Have you adopted beliefs from Leo? Look where this has gotten you. It doesn't mean we can't trust someone and enjoy their words of wisdom, but we don't have to make them our own

My advice: until you have figured out "who you are", do not cling to ideas of an "ultimate truth" 

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2 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

don't mistake existence as something "you" had a choice in, but know it could not be any other way. It seems you have adopted some beliefs related to your experience giving you a limited perspective. Beliefs don't exist unless you think they do. Have you adopted beliefs from Leo? Look where this has gotten you. It doesn't mean we can't trust someone and enjoy their words of wisdom, but we don't have to make them our own

My advice: until you have figured out "who you are", do not cling to ideas of an "ultimate truth" 

I don't know where it all came from. I was always happy believing we were all human monkeys, with our own experiences on this quite lovely little planet. But then I got into this stuff and it opened a can of works in my mind. A can I wish I never hoped I'd opened because it has genuinely taken the colour out of everything. 

I like to look at people as unique individuals. As individual animals. They are born, they age and then die. 

The thing is I don't subscribe to a lot of stuff that comes with enlightenment. I. E channeling, psychics, spiritual healing etc. I just don't at all. 

But who are we if our bodies are just an arrangement of stardust that is constantly changing. There can't be a 'you'. 

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3 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

I don't know where it all came from. I was always happy believing we were all human monkeys, with our own experiences on this quite lovely little planet. But then I got into this stuff and it opened a can of works in my mind. A can I wish I never hoped I'd opened because it has genuinely taken the colour out of everything. 

I like to look at people as unique individuals. As individual animals. They are born, they age and then die. 

The thing is I don't subscribe to a lot of stuff that comes with enlightenment. I. E channeling, psychics, spiritual healing etc. I just don't at all. 

But who are we if our bodies are just an arrangement of stardust that is constantly changing. There can't be a 'you'. 

What are you searching for in this stuff?

(other than yourself) who says you can't see other people as unique individuals? 

Can you prove there is no 'you'?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, DrewNows said:

What are you searching for in this stuff?

(other than yourself) who says you can't see other people as unique individuals? 

Can you prove there is no 'you'?

I guess I'm just looking for certainty on what reality is. What the universe and what we are. We know we are something, clearly. But like I say, I have a form of OCD (I understand that to many on here saying stuff like, oh I have OCD, sounds like complete bullshit). My mind can't deal with uncertainty about some things. Last week I was crying my eyes out on my sofa because I felt I had been unfaithful to my GF because I told my friend at work that I agreed that her boyfriend was lucky to have her! I was questioning my intentions etc. If there is potential for uncertainty, I go crazy. What is more uncertain than reality?

I guess I can't prove there is no 'me'. Would seeing people as individuals not be the truth though?

To be honest, my life has always unfolded just as science has always suggested. I've never had an enlightenment experience. But when I start looking at things like biology, I start questioning what actually makes me, and everyone else humans.

Edited by Paul92

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@Paul92 This work will teach you how to be ok with any kind of uncertainty.

OCD is a blessing in disguise. I had pretty severe OCD for a year or two as a kid and still have those tendencies so I know exactly how that feels. If you have those tendencies the mind creates so much suffering that you have a lot of motivation and reminders to move beyond it quite quickly. 

I really recommend this book. It really shows you how to move beyond concepts and be at peace in the moment. https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=the+power+of+now&qid=1553977338&s=gateway&sr=8-2 


Light on Earth The power of love came into me,
and I became fierce like a lion,
then tender like the evening star.” - Rumi

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56 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I really recommend this book. It really shows you how to move beyond concepts and be at peace in the moment. https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=the+power+of+now&qid=1553977338&s=gateway&sr=8-2 

@Paul92this book would be great for you. We learn from a very young age to begin making assumptions and often lose our sense of curiosity. 

2 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I guess I can't prove there is no 'me'. Would seeing people as individuals not be the truth though?

this would definitely be truth from that perspective. And you will never lose that perspective, but there's a chance you will expand beyond it 

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5 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I guess I'm just looking for certainty on what reality is. What the universe and what we are. We know we are something, clearly. But like I say, I have a form of OCD (I understand that to many on here saying stuff like, oh I have OCD, sounds like complete bullshit). My mind can't deal with uncertainty about some things. Last week I was crying my eyes out on my sofa because I felt I had been unfaithful to my GF because I told my friend at work that I agreed that her boyfriend was lucky to have her! I was questioning my intentions etc. If there is potential for uncertainty, I go crazy. What is more uncertain than reality?

I guess I can't prove there is no 'me'. Would seeing people as individuals not be the truth though?

To be honest, my life has always unfolded just as science has always suggested. I've never had an enlightenment experience. But when I start looking at things like biology, I start questioning what actually makes me, and everyone else humans.

Paul92 if you REALLY want the truth because your mind wants certainty, then here you go, you are that which was here before anything ever existed, that which has always been here and will always be here.  Its the essance of what makes your mind your mind, your body your body and your life your life.  Its really real because thats all that there is, you are that, AND the life lived up to this point has been your life, one of this infinite stories you've lived and will continue to explore in future lives.  Its just been embodied and named paul this time, you are paul, and infinitily more then paul.  All the joys and ways of seeing and being in the life are real and precious to you, appreciate that, see that, stop moaning and obsessing now.  Your now in a nervous break down time and its time to wake up to the fact that you can pick your ass up out of this this, your life is in your hands.

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