An interesting trick in the human civilisation

[Truth Addict]

I became aware of this a few weeks ago, and I wanted to share it with you to get more understanding, so if you like to add, criticise, or correct anything, I'd appreciate it.

I will present my ideas in a theme of general speaking, so I hope they won't come out vague, but at the same time I don't want to tackle with technicalities.

So, here goes..

Labour, or the hierarchy that allows one person to benefit from other people's efforts.

How does this trick work exactly?

In the optimal situation of any living creature, the creature pays for what it consumes in very fair ways.

For example: there is a certain amount of energy in the body of a cat, this energy allows the cat to go look for food and sex, when the cat gets its food, it gets more energy, it's kind of like a video game.

But, for human beings, it's not like that.

The trick happens through illusion and belief, especially beliefs about the future.

For you as a human being, if you're not on the top of the hierarchy, then you pay a lot more than you earn. Whereas people who are at the top, pay a lot less (in energy terms).

We sell our present moment in the hopes of future pleasures.

Consider this, I am an employer and I have 10 employees, they work for me 8 hours a day. I earn my money everyday, whereas they earn their money after 30 days (depends and varies of course).

That means I get 80 hours of work a day, for working only 8 hours.

But that's not exactly the trick.

In a company, when you sign a contract, there's an underlying agreement that you will get paid after 30 days, or in other words, you lend your company your effort (energy that becomes money) for 30 days, and so do your colleagues, which makes the boss the biggest winner with the least effort.

It's a fundamental flaw in the hierarchy of the human civilisation, or is it really a flaw? Oh, I don't think so. Really, all I imagine of when I think of this trick, is the Egyptian slaves who'd built the pyramids.

So, in conclusion, everything I do that doesn't get me my earnings during the day is a trick, or you can say: the sooner the better, because what if I die tomorrow? You see? Generally speaking, the employers earn their money daily, whereas the labour (employees) earn it after a week/month.

If an employee has worked 29 days, and died in the 30th day, the boss gets the money and the employee don't.

It's literally the bosses borrowing their employees' present moment, and the employees lending their present moment to their bosses for the future.

Notice this dynamic in government as well, I expect that every collective ego has such a dynamic.

One good solution I think is career. I can't think of anything else right now.

I know this is not necessarily the case all the time and I know of course we can't get rid of this slavery in one day, but it's good to be aware of it.

[Mu_]

Interesting view, but I feel like I'd get a bit depressed if I believed it as inherently true.

On a basic level I think a lot of employers are just people like you and I who have an idea, some money (borrowed or saved) and they create it into the world.  This leads to needing employees who they themselves need a job so they can live (everyone needs work, or how to survive in the wild).  Now I'm not sure if your saying this, but I dont think its an evil plan of some sort that bosses are keeping going and not telling anyone else about (like a shadow government).  This is just how bartering is taking place these days.  Since people dont have goods they make themselves to trade they work for someone who produces goods and pays them.  This "money" allows for people to buy and sell/barter through labor put in.

[tedens]

@Truth Addict very accurate observations..

slavery of a different kind.. but it will change, hope.
  
 

Edited March 25, 2019 by tedens

[Zetxil]

@Truth Addict

Oh let me have a crake at this one! Such a good question about society! 

The trick of labour in a functioning society: There is mutual benefit of both parties when there is paid labour! Free labour is slavery. Now, what you call fair in this situation is entirely subjective, but I can try to argue that it is fair or isn't fair, if you would like! 

On 3/23/2019 at 4:32 AM, Truth Addict said:

It's a fundamental flaw in the hierarchy of the human civilisation, or is it really a flaw? Oh, I don't think so. Really, all I imagine of when I think of this trick, is the Egyptian slaves who'd built the pyramids.

 that is the trick of balancing a "hierarchy" <-- (Im not a fan of this model, but we will continue with it) to not let it get too split! 1 individual having ruling over all in that respective hierarchy is the extent of polarization of a, what I find to be a negative/bad, hierarchy. 

On 3/23/2019 at 4:32 AM, Truth Addict said:

So, in conclusion, everything I do that doesn't get me my earnings during the day is a trick, or you can say: the sooner the better, because what if I die tomorrow? You see? Generally speaking, the employers earn their money daily, whereas the labour (employees) earn it after a week/month.

You seem to not have a concept of probability/delayed gratification in that processing. The likely hood of you dying tomorrow is pretty slim compared to the likelihood of you living so you should incorporate that into your thinking about this problem as to what is fair. Yes I do see cause I am not blind!

On 3/23/2019 at 4:32 AM, Truth Addict said:

If an employee has worked 29 days, and died in the 30th day, the boss gets the money and the employee don't.

It's literally the bosses borrowing their employees' present moment, and the employees lending their present moment to their bosses for the future.

Notice this dynamic in government as well, I expect that every collective ego has such a dynamic.

One good solution I think is career. I can't think of anything else right now.

I know this is not necessarily the case all the time and I know of course we can't get rid of this slavery in one day, but it's good to be aware of it.

Yea this functioning society thing is pretty new in the history of man kind, it has mostly been the split of 1 versus many. For the first time, in my understanding of history, Investigating why this happened seems to be rooted in more freedom of speech of the individual and a larger access to knowledge available in the public, but I find more search is needed to know completely as those being the only causes.

what is career a good solution too? There are a lot of good points and I lost what you were trying to get at here.

To label what is seen in a functioning society/government as slavery seems slightly the mark if you are using the model of a hierarchy/the interaction of multiple hierarchies to label our society. We, as humans, seem to be stopping the split of hierarchies at an increasing rate, which I enjoy!  It is good to be aware! 

[Truth Addict]

@Mu_ @Zetxil

I didn't mean to make it depressing, I apologise if it seemed so.

And no, I'm not saying there's an evil plan to enslave people by the bosses.

All I'm saying is that there's so much inequality in this pyramid scheme, the bosses are the most benefited, and the employees are not paid fairly. That's not a mistake, but at the same time it's not an evil plan. That's what happens when you give an unconscious ego so much power (money in this case).

The boss who does the least physically exhausting work gets the most money (in my experience, the boss gets at least the double or more than what the totality of employees earn), which adds to the problem once again (capital inflation).

We have to consider that these luxuries we have today are not equal to the amount of sources that have been discovered by humanity, there's so much money wasted on wars and on propaganda etc... and this wage slavery feeds to the problem, because if we were all equal, why would we fight?

Now, don't mistake me for a fan of complete equality, equality when it's taken to its extreme also doesn't work, and it causes problems, we will always need this hierarchy to move in life, but as I said earlier, it's good to be aware of it, which means if the bosses become aware of their evil, we will see more equality and compassion, that's all.

[tsuki]

@Truth Addict While I think that your observations are poignant, the depressing part comes from the fact that you're not taking it far enough.
The company built on the shoulders of its employees is only possible through slapping an oversized cortex on a chimpanzee without giving it instruction manual on how to operate it. We are losing ourselves in ideas of future and past and the enslavement does not come from external exploitation, but through our unwillingness to admit that our plans are full of holes and external dependencies. This forces us to become blind, which manifests either as ferociousness, or compliance that gets us to the so-called top, or locks us as a helpless piece of the system.

Living in a world that is constructed of hierarchical theories never leads to liberation.
A CEO that builds his company by exploiting employees will find himself at the top of the human ladder only to see that he's now competing with companies instead of people. Companies that are waiting to bankrupt him and strip him of his luxuries. This is ignorance, samsara, fate.

The truth is that we're animals, but we have the capacity to bullshit ourselves otherwise.
We exchange energy freely, to eat, sleep and procreate, but our minds convince us otherwise.
This bullshit is what we have to wake up from to be free.

Edited March 25, 2019 by tsuki

[Zigzag Idiot]

"I spent years climbing the ladder only to eventually realize it was leaning against the wrong wall."

from Joseph Campbell,,,I think.

[Zetxil]

@Truth Addict Ah! I understand your statement! There is clear inequality between individuals, that seems to be necessary for development of any society, also, to determine what is the best situation (or correct amount of inequality) is still unclear to say for certain. Saying that bosses benifit more than the employee is too much of an over statement! Bosses have a lot more risk involved with job security as well as the amount of work put in to currently preside in that position! There is still a balance of hierarchies. Now, don't get me wrong! There seems to me some hierarchies that have a greater expansiveness than others (money/power being the first two that pop in my head), those types of hierarchies tend to be more universal between individuals!

If we are all equal, there is no fighting, but that also means progress is hindered by the lack of competition! 

For me, the goal is to find the best system for all involved in the system! Having many many systems seems to help me find balance in other systems instead of focusing solely on a singular system. (I used the word system too much haha hopefully my logic can still be followed) ?

Maybe the ability of equal opportunity to transition in every hierarchy is the best situation for all! (I know Jordan Peterson has thought about hierarchies as a "good" model a decent amount, so if you are still confused you could watch some of his lectures/interviews!)

@tsuki Saying that humans are a monkey with an oversized cortex w/o an instruction manual is so over the top misleading to what we actually are capable of ?? 

If CEO's are exploitative they seem to perpetuate this issue being discussed, but you should take into account CEO's that don't exploit their employees and when it is more based off mutual agreement of exchange! 

I find freedom comes from understanding that we are animals, and that we are also sooooooooo much more than that!

@Zigzag Idiot That's a really good quote! Sometimes we have to shimmy our ladder onto another wall when we find that wall to be unfit!  

[tsuki]

37 minutes ago, Zetxil said:

If CEO's are exploitative they seem to perpetuate this issue being discussed, but you should take into account CEO's that don't exploit their employees and when it is more based off mutual agreement of exchange! 

@Zetxil When I was talking about the world built of hierarchical theories, I was referring to a psychological perspective of a hypothetical CEO, not a "physical" world. You misunderstood my point.

39 minutes ago, Zetxil said:

I find freedom comes from understanding that we are animals, and that we are also sooooooooo much more than that!

No, we're not. We falsely attribute the invention of civilization to ourselves.
We humans flowered out of nature and civilization flowered out of us.
Human nature is still nature.

Not going to argue with you, though.

[Zetxil]

13 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Zetxil When I was talking about the world built of hierarchical theories, I was referring to a psychological perspective of a hypothetical CEO, not a "physical" world. You misunderstood my point.

@tsuki I didn't misunderstand your point! I was just trying to give a more physical world example that more people can realate to!

My pattern still seems to apply to both situations still, physical and psychological. When exploutative measures are used that is where corruption occurs, but if one has mutual agreement with another/many, benifical progress can occur! 

17 minutes ago, tsuki said:

No, we're not. We falsely attribute the invention of civilization to ourselves.
We humans flowered out of nature and civilization flowered out of us.
Human nature is still nature.

Not going to argue with you, though.

I never claimed I am resposible for civilization? Did I? Why are you grouping me into this claim? Human nature is by definition part of nature, yes ?

Not really so much as an argument as a mutual exchange of ideas! We both benifit from communicating with each other! 

[bejapuskas]

You can still be a happy person, while doing the dishes  

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

I don't agree. Employers don't pay you every day because there's a cost for the bank transaction - so it makes sense that they do it once or twice a month. 

Everything that the employer earns need to be distributed to the employees - sooner or later. The argument of the employee dying is not relevant since it's not the case, it's the exception.

Maybe you should read some Adam Smith books to understand how capitalism works. Also, Marx's book might be a good read if you want a nice contrasting idea.

[Truth Addict]

@bejapuskas of course ?

@Juan Cruz Giusto regarding the bank transaction point, that's exactly what I was criticising, why should the employees pay for their employers' debts? That's the trick, the employer who has the money to run their company can easily supply their work for one month in forward, and they should, because it's their company.

Imagine I am starting a company with no money to pay my employees, I would let them work for a whole month, and then I would pay them. It certainly shouldn't be that way, but it actually is.

A car can't run without fuel, but the fuel is paid by the employees.

An ideal job wouldn't be that way.

And sure, the employee dying is not the case, maybe I exaggerated a little bit.

[Truth Addict]

Thank you for your contributions!

@Zigzag Idiot @Zetxil

@tsuki