Skipping the ‘Pickup’ phase

[RawJudah]

Ok, here goes...

 

Leo’s recent posts about Pickup has got me really confused. He suggests to do pickup, but has a whole video about why pickup is terrible for spirituality and self actualisation. I can see straight through the pickup theory, it’s all about manipulation of women to get your own selfish needs met. I understand why men do this, because obviously having sex is awesome. But I can’t help but feel bad for these girls and feel awful about myself. It’s not in my DNA to manipulate people, in fact I fucking hate it. I can’t do it without feeling bad. I was sucked into looking at pickup theory because yeah, deep down I do want to get laid. However, I do want to connect with a girl properly without manipulating or controlling her. I don’t want to be selfish with this stuff. I want to like a girl for who she actually is rather than liking her for her vagina. 

 

And I understand the whole ‘looking better and being more attractive and being more masculine’, but can’t I do this without pickup?

 

So my question is, can I skip this part of my life??? Or do I have to experience this before moving on to stage green? Can I just skip stage orange? To be honest I don’t know what stage I’m even in at the moment.

 

Can anyone help?

 

 

[tsuki]

I skipped that stage as well for various reasons and now that I'm married it's not an option anymore.
From my experience, I will tell you that the most valuable thing you can get from manipulating people is:

1. feeling at ease with being manipulated by others
2. taking ownership of your desires

As humans we need stuff. In order to get it, we need power. If you do not acknowledge this simple fact, you will still use power but in such a way that you will not notice it. You will feel like a victim. This way, your needs will be insatiable, because you will not be conscious of the fact that you are exploiting people and reap benefits. The other problem is that you will not feel joy in having things, which will feed right back into your need for more. It's a vicious cycle.

3 hours ago, RawJudah said:

So my question is, can I skip this part of my life??? Or do I have to experience this before moving on to stage green? Can I just skip stage orange? To be honest I don’t know what stage I’m even in at the moment.

You can, but it will result in you having a shadow. In fact, you probably already have one with respect to power to begin with and it is the cause of your willingness to avoid this stage altogether. If you want to do pickup, you need to ask yourself: what do women get out of being picked up by you? Do you provide some value to them? Or are you trying to outsmart them and lie your way into their pants?

The other question is: will your future wife really be happy with a man that can't fuck with her psyche properly? How are you going to keep being attractive to her through 40 years of marriage/relationship? You need to get this experience somewhere. <- ooh, that paragraph feels so wrong. Long term relationships are not built in pickup skills, but I believe they could help. I guess that's my stuff right here.

This feels like a classic example of trying to be smarter than yourself. You are exactly as smart as you, so don't try to use knowledge you gathered to avoid uncomfortable areas of life. It will bite you in the ass in the end.

Edited March 20, 2019 by tsuki

[JohnnyBravo]

Yes you can skip pickup.

Its only for those people whos self esteem is so beyond hell low (I fell into this category).

Once youve 'mastered' pickup the only realisation you have is that you are good enough, and, you were good enough all along.

The pickup stuff is just a long, silly road to get to that realisation.

[RawJudah]

@JohnnyBravo thank you!

this is exactly what I have been thinking, these pickup guys have some deep issues that they need solving in other ways, like counselling or meditation maybe. 

It just isn’t for me, I can’t do that shit to people. And I’m happy enough with my looks and personality that I don’t need to validate it by chasing after vagina. 

Dont get me wrong, I love women. I think they can be a lot stronger than men sometimes, and I’m not going to manipulate them for my own silly needy needs. There’s too much suffering involved.

[JohnnyBravo]

There is so much bullshit out there....I cannot fucking believe it. I fucking cant believe how much bullshit is out there in the dating scene.

Men and women meant to be best friends.

Instead,

Battle of the sexes 

Pornography 

Red pill bullshit

Pickup.

....where are the adults in this world?

Yes. Pickup is a phase that can be skipped.

Pickup is not love. And it is not a trusting relationship.

I damanged a relationship because i told the girl whom i used my pickup skills on that I was just with her for pickup. It broke her heart.

It broke my heart.

And I cannot believe people dont see through it quicker. Fair enough, give it a try.

But any intelligent human can see the deceitfulness and dishonest behind it.

Apologies for the swearing. It is a subject I am enthusiastic about after having robbed my soul away for many years in pickup.

[d0ornokey]

Get good at socializing

Get good at flirting

Get good at connecting with others

Build a strong network 

[Markus]

@RawJudah If something makes you feel like shit and you see through it, that's a good indication you shouldn't engage in it. Just try and relate to women in a more genuine and non-manipulative way. As for sources, Alan Roger Currie is quite non-manipulative though sorta low-consciousness, Zan Perrion is interesting.

[Shin]

Read "The Way Of The Superior Man" and "Models"

Those are good books about how to be a genuine man who respect women while embodying its masculine core.

Everything else looks like shortcuts and childish coping mechanisms.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shin

[Arcangelo]

I do pick up because i want a relationship and sex OFC.

I don't lie when i do pick up. I haven't picked up anything yet.

Am i doing pick up if i haven't picked up anything yet?

Guys that do pick up for real, are masters at lying they tell girls they are pro athletes that know other pro athletes. Is like they believe their lies, it is amazing. I don't wanna be/do that. I just wanna be in the right spot, at the right time, and have the balls to go say hi to a  girl i like, and hopefully that will be it.

 

I don't think you can/should skip pick up.

Also remember that from the moment you wake up until the moment you fall asleep you are manipulating everything and everybody around you, including yourself. Leo has a video about that too.

[RawJudah]

@JohnnyBravo great post. You summed it all up!

i am pretty good socially, I sometimes get a bit of social anxiety now and again but this is with difficult people, most people are fine to talk to and so I do talk to them. 

But yeah, there is so much bullshit on the internet, and I’ve fallen for the trap many times, most recently being Leo’s recent comments on this forum. I know he’s right in most of what he says, but the pickup stuff is just bullshit. I hope he knows it’s bad. It’s his video on YouTube that speaks more sense than his comments on here.

thank you everyone for the replies, I needed to ask people before I went mad. It’s like, I needed to confirm I wasn’t skipping over something Leo has said is important.

 

[RawJudah]

@Michael569 really great comment, thank you.

 

[Arcangelo]

Check out what Leo wrote very recently:

''The upside of rolling solo is that you grow very fast, as long as you're able to do approaches. If you're going out solo and you're so scared that you don't even approach, then you're not ready for that yet. You need a wingman/friend.

@Brenzo2 You mean you're in a relationship but you want to build your pickup skills at the same time? That's hard. In practice, once you get in a comfortable relationship your pickup skills will suffer. There's a trade-off.

@Joel3102 Yes, it certainly is, but it's going to take much more work than you imagine at the outset. But the upside is that it will also be much more rewarding (in terms of growth) than you imagine. To really get good at pickup you need to hit it hardcore for a couple of years, approaching 5000+ people. You need to take it very seriously. A half-assed attitude will not work here. You basically need to rewire and retrain much of your mind. Attraction is extremely counter-intuitive. It will shock you. You'll be in for some rude awakening. It will be emotionally difficult. But it will grow you like crazy. If you do it, don't do it for the sex, do it for the stronger man it makes you. It can also be very fun and exciting compared to sitting at home and playing Fortnite. Doing pickup hardcore makes you feel ALIVE! It makes you feel like a hero on his journey towards manhood.

I highly recommend handling this part of your life. Just don't be a douche, don't hurt women, and don't develop an ideology or identity around it.

If you want to get serious about learning this skill set, you must bite the bullet and move to a large city with great nightlife and lots of hot girls. LA, NYC, Chicago, Miami, Austin, Vegas, London, etc. It's very worth it. Don't be trying to learn pickup in some redneck part of the world. You need volume to practice on. If you're not willing to relocate, you're not very serious about it.

But at the same time, don't make excuses if you can't relocate immediately. Begin wherever you're at and make plan to upgrade your situation.

Pickup is not just about attracting girls. Pickup is about upgrading your entire lifestyle. It's about better nutrition, better fitness, better apartment, better decor, better cloths, better haircut, better friends, better car, better everything. Transform yourself into an attractive fucking man with an awesome life such that a woman would be itching to be around you. Shed your old childish ways. Become awesome. When you become a truly awesome, valuable man, guys and girls will flock to be around you. This is not some gimmick. You are actually becoming awesome. It's a total makeover.

But also don't get lost in it. Return to spirituality once you've completed that phase of your life.

P.S. There are always limits to everything a human does. Don't let that stop you from being awesome. You don't need to sleep with 100 girls. You don't need to become the Michael Jordan of pickup. You just need to become decent and score a few girlfriends. Which basically any guy can do.''

Edited March 20, 2019 by Arcangelo
underscored a few things

[RawJudah]

@Arcangelo I know, they are the comments I am talking about.

I just need to know if its a good idea to 'skip stage orange' and go straight to 'stage green'

I think I have the answers now, I will certainly talk to girls and flirt with them here and there, but I wont be doing pickup. Its too creepy for me, there's something about it that I don't like. I mean, I'm actually looking for a girlfriend that I can share deep connections with, not dating and shagging 200 women before a certain year.

I just needed to know if I was alone in thinking this way...

[Arcangelo]

It is never a good idea to skip stages. You can/should skip unhealthy manifestations like lying about you being a pro athlete.

Personally i was skipping orange too. Realized it was a bad idea, and now i am trying to be the most orange being that i can possibly be. I am building an orange rock solid foundation.

I think you (and me) skipping orange is just our ego trying to maintain homeostasis (resisting change and growth)

It is way easier to  go meditate in the woods than talk to random strangers in the street.

It is easier to go into a forum and chat with like minded people about healing crystals than to go out to a club all by yourself and talk to a hot woman.

 

Catch my drift?

[JohnnyBravo]

@Arcangelo

So what I hear you saying is that he HAS to do pickup?

Or is it a free choice and up to the individual?

[Arcangelo]

It is a free choice and up to the individual yes, but he's got sexual cravings.

If he wants sex he's gotta play the game of attraction and if he wants to connect with a girl properly he's gotta play the game of attraction as well.

Now, if he wouldn't have sexual cravings i would say go for it, skip it.

If you leave those cravings unsatisfied they will become wholes in your orange foundation.

Leo says that we gotta satisfy those cravings until we get sick of them and we are able to see that they are NOT the real deal.

I totally get it. But for me, from the stage i am at, money, success and having sex with hot beautiful women IS the real deal right now. Maybe later i will evolve or be enlightened or whatever. But  as of right now this is where i am at.

And it is cool and a good thing. Orange is not bad.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Arcangelo
coma

[flowboy]

On 3/20/2019 at 9:55 AM, RawJudah said:

I want to like a girl for who she actually is rather than liking her for her vagina. 

What does that even mean?

Because what I think it means is that you want to be romantically connected with someone and pretend that sex isn't important to you. Would you really want a good girlfriend whose pussy is so disgusting you can't touch it? Sorry for being explicit but I'm harsh because this attitude will hurt you. If you meet girls and have this shadow about your sexuality, not being open with it and pretending it's not that important, then girls will not feel relaxed around you and not want to open up sexually. Because she feels that you have unprocessed judgments there that she would be victim of.

No, not even "the right girl".

17 hours ago, RawJudah said:

I will certainly talk to girls and flirt with them here and there, but I wont be doing pickup. Its too creepy for me, there's something about it that I don't like. I mean, I'm actually looking for a girlfriend that I can share deep connections with, not dating and shagging 200 women before a certain year.

If you can't get the many, you can't keep the one. You can try to get into a relationship with "the right girl", but you will get clingy and needy on her and it won't be a great relationship. She will dump you and leave you destroyed. Because you skipped steps. You never had the 'abundance' phase, so she will have all the power in the relationship and that will turn her off long term.

I know you won't listen to this. Neither did I I had to experience it for myself as well, and fall on my face several times. It is only natural to want to skip ahead.

[RawJudah]

@Arcangelo @flowboy Fucking hell

Both of you are right. I literally crave sex pretty much all of the time, I just can't see at this moment in time how pickup is a good idea. 

I know Leo has said to have enough sex so we don't crave it anymore and we can go into higher consciousness, it has just taken me by surprise how important that shit actually is. 

Maybe I'm being too much of a 'nice guy'. Maybe I should try and be more 'alpha' 

lol. 

My mind complicates things so much I never know what to believe each day. I'm constantly learning things all the time. And most of it surprises me to the point of anxiety.

I just hate the idea of using and controlling people, especially girls. I know how emotional they are.

 

[Shin]

1 minute ago, RawJudah said:

@Arcangelo @flowboy Fucking hell

Both of you are right. I literally crave sex pretty much all of the time, I just can't see at this moment in time how pickup is a good idea. 

I know Leo has said to have enough sex so we don't crave it anymore and we can go into higher consciousness, it has just taken me by surprise how important that shit actually is. 

Maybe I'm being too much of a 'nice guy'. Maybe I should try and be more 'alpha' 

lol. 

My mind complicates things so much I never know what to believe each day. I'm constantly learning things all the time. And most of it surprises me to the point of anxiety.

I just hate the idea of using and controlling people, especially girls. I know how emotional they are.

 

You could have massive sex on sexual dating app.

Tinder is free.

[RawJudah]

@Shin I've been thinking about that too. 

Escorts too maybe?

How low can I go? lol

Fuck sake!