Is Self Inquiry 'Relaxing' Awareness or 'Focusing' on it

[Wisebaxter]

One issue I'm having with self inquiry is, Leo talks about 'focusing' on awareness, almost as if it's a concentration exercise, but Rupert Spira says that it's about relaxing your attention as you can't make awarenesses into an object. He says that it's a 'non practice' that requires you not to do anything at all with your attention. You just let it fall back into itself. Any ideas where my confusion lies? Maybe their outlining two different approaches for arriving at the same result. Spira does mention self inquiry at the end of this video, almost as if it's slightly different. He refers to it as a 'concession' in the teaching to help you get to the stage he's referring to. 

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Dumb Enlightened]

When I did it I tried to focus on awareness, or rather on the 'I' who was aware, I had more results doing this then trying to relax, because when I did try to relax the mind would start to think random shit, so I got lost in thoughts, but when I concentrate with enough will I could quiet down the mind.

[Highest]

Inquire the fuck out of it. Focus on it and become conscious that it is not me. The conceptual thought created I is an illusion, pure fantasy. Awarness becomes aware of itself and becomes conscious that it’s everything and God, that only It It Alone exists.

[Wisebaxter]

@Dumb Enlightened This is the same problem I have. If I relax the mind I have nothing to anchor me, so thoughts come in. Spira does say that you should let that happen though and not be in a battle with your thoughts. He says you can become aware of the fact that thoughts are comprised only of awareness, which is pure 'knowing-ness.' In other words, the knowing of a thought is the awareness. But if I try to focus on awareness, my attention just jumps around as awareness itself is formless. 

[Wisebaxter]

@Highest Ah I see. But isn't there a difference between the conceptual 'I' and the real 'I'? The sense of 'I am' is the true Self, no? Or is this the 'awareness becoming aware of itself' that you referred to?

Edited March 1, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Dumb Enlightened]

9 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Highest Ah I see. But isn't there a difference between the conceptual 'I' and the real 'I'? The sense of 'I am' is the true Self, no? Or is this the 'awareness becoming aware of itself' that you referred to?

The I is the truth, but you don't know what this I is yet, you know that you exist, you have some beliefs about what this I is, most people think they are a person, 'living in a body', etc... so you're going to investigate who is this ' I ' that I am. The problem you will encounter is that you can't find the location of this I, but you have to keep looking and looking, until the one who is looking for the I, the seeker / the self, goes away, and only the I remain, this seeker is an illusion , that's way it dissolves, so you won't answer any question, the questions will also dissolve.

[Highest]

@Wisebaxter There is a difference between the conceptional I and the real I, one is an illusion and the other is actuality. The sense ‘’I am’’ is ultimately an ego illusion. Truth is when awarness becomes aware of itself as the One who is All.

[Wisebaxter]

@Dumb Enlightened The way I'm doing inquiry is to skip all of the 'asking questions' parts (which I've done a few times) and go straight to where they're supposed to lead you, which is to the sense of 'I am.' Leo told me the questions are only to get you there so you can focus on this 'I,' with no questions, you just focus, until you have a mystical experience and recognise it's nature. But this is where I've currently got a bit stuck as I don't now whether to focus or to relax awareness. 'Focusing' awareness implies there is an observer and object, which is why relaxing awareness seems to make more sense if as you say, the goal is to let the 'observer/object divide collapse. 

[Forestluv]

@Wisebaxter I will only inquire if my mind is relaxed and quiet. It's counter-productive if I try to inquire with a busy mind.

If my mind is still and relaxed, a question such as "What is genuine?" may arise. If my mind starts intellectualizing, I will stop the inquiry. It's more about a state of "being", a "prescence" an "essence". It's not about intellectualizating for me.

[Wisebaxter]

@Highest Can't 'I am' also refer to 'all is one?' If there is only 'one' there must also be only one 'I.' Maybe Rupert is referring to the universal 'I am' and not the conceptual one. I get your point though. I'm probably still stuck in the egoic 'I am' when I practice this. Thanks for your help. 

[Wisebaxter]

@Serotoninluv So if you're entering a calm state of mind, does this mean you're 'relaxing' awareness? You're not focusing on anything per se until a question arises? 

[Highest]

@Wisebaxter Who is aware of the sense ‘’I am’’? That is the real you. Awarness. Awarness is God. God is your direct experience and looking trough your eyes. Awarness is not something that belongs to you. You don’t exist. Apart from God you have no existence because you are God. If for example God goes non-existent, the same will happen to you

[Wisebaxter]

@Highest Ah thanks man, that makes a lot of sense and is really helpful. So I'm aiming for the  awareness that is behind the sense of 'I am' because this 'I am' is ego-based. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Wisebaxter

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Serotoninluv So if you're entering a calm state of mind, does this mean you're 'relaxing' awareness? You're not focusing on anything per se until a question arises? 

Hmmm, I hadn't really thought about it like that. . . 

I think we are all familiar with the "monkey mind" (no pun intended). As well as a mind that quiets down during meditation. I generally don't really go into meditation with an inquiry goal (yet occasionally I do - like when I was struggling with form=formless). Usually, I will sit still or do be doing yin yoga and reach deeper and deeper states of consciousness. I'm not really waiting for a question to arise either. It's like another realm (I found smoking a little weed + yin yoga can together help relax the mind body into deep relaxation). Then something may arise. There is no attachment, identification or internationalization with it. Sometimes it arises, sometimes not. What arises can be wild. Like paranormal stuff. . . 

For example, I started dating a gal recently I feel a strong connection/attraction to. Last week during the start of my practice, surface level thoughts about whether I should ask her out again, should I call her later tonight, what we might do on the next date etc. arose. That's surface level stuff I just let go of. 20min. into the practice was deep relaxation and quiet. Then she appeared again. Yet it had a very different essence. It was trans-personal. I just sat with it. It was like her presence was with me. Like a channel had opened. There was observation of how our energies mix. It was deeper than self desires and needs. It was a deeper level of love I guess one could call it. I just let it mix and linger. Yet, my "self" wasn't there. There was no "me" thinking stuff like "Wow!! This is so cool!! It's like another being is here! Gosh, golly I wonder if I should ask it something. The guys on the forum are gonna love this!" There was no person like that present. If there was, I would have changed direction.

[Highest]

@Wisebaxter You’re welcome my friend ☺️ Yes it’s mostly ego based. Become conscious of the One who is aware of the sense ‘’I am’’. When that one or It becomes conscious of itself, you will become conscious and aware that it’s everything and formless which takes on all form. You can become conscious that God is formless.

[abrakamowse]

God is beyond the I am, the I am is the way to God, to the Absolute who is everything, so is nothing too, because nothing is part of everything.

[Highest]

@Wisebaxter This one who is aware of the sense I am is of course God. But God is also the sense I am. When I say God is everything, I mean literally everything. Anything you can imagine. Saying that God is everything is equal to saying that only God alone is existent.

[Zigzag Idiot]

7 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

One issue I'm having with self inquiry is, Leo talks about 'focusing' on awareness, almost as if it's a concentration exercise, but Rupert Spira says that it's about relaxing your attention as you can't make awarenesses into an object. He says that it's a 'non practice' that requires you not to do anything at all with your attention. You just let it fall back into itself. Any ideas where my confusion lies? Maybe their outlining two different approaches for arriving at the same result. Spira does mention self inquiry at the end of this video, almost as if it's slightly different. He refers to it as a 'concession' in the teaching to help you get to the stage he's referring to. 

 

My Centering Prayer meditation does the same thing as Rupert Spira's meditation. I also have a concentration practice that is similar to what I think Leo is reffering to which is good for 'mindfulness'. Doesn't Leo also have a do nothing meditation?

Centering Prayer, it is said cultivates "objectless awareness" or another way to put it, 'non-conceptual awareness'. No objects in awareness at all, including thoughts. Of course there are the constant intrusions of thought but in brief periods when there is objectless awareness, everything is still and quiet inside.

[Zigzag Idiot]

I think the capacity for objectless awareness is key for developing Witness Consciousness. The concentration practices which develop mindfulness or the capacity for staying present helps with integration and shadow work. One end result of concentration practices in the long run will also be having more control of one's attention.

[Truth Addict]

@Wisebaxter

The guys said great things above.

I'll add what I think is right.

You need to do both relaxation and focusing. Start with meditation until your mind is still, then start asking questions and try to get genuine accurate answers.

You can use this method to contemplate other questions as well.

The main trap is thought. What you're seeking is actuality.