2 questions about enlightenment

[amirali gharib parsa]

hi my name is amirali and im an 19 year old college student from iran . this is my first post and im excited to be a part of this community. before i ask my questions i want to add that i will use the word "self" instead of "ego" . in my opinion the world ego can be a bit misleading because in my case amirali is the ego and not a separate entity and i did not notice this till recently . now lets get to questions :

1: enlightenment means dissolving or killing the self , how fully enlightened beings or someone with no sense of self can even function (walk,talk,socialize,...) as a human being? or they describe enlightenment as being joyful or stronger than any drug highs, how can I experience joy when there is no me?!

2: after my recent trip i realized that by doing consciousness work im actually killing myself ! how can killing the self or in other words dissolving the ego slowly but surely benefiet the self ?! even so why not just suicide?

for the first question i've got some idea's . by killing the self you become formless so you can take many forms . im not so sure about that and would like to hear your opinions too.

I'd appreciate you sharing your answer and forgive me for any grammatical mistakes

Edited November 22, 2018 by amirali gharib parsa

[Aaron p]

Well the small "s" self (human) is just an idea. There is no reality behind you being your emotions or personality or memories or habits etc. So all that truly exists is the true self, the big "S" self which is the observer (you) who is also god. Enlightenment isint actually desolving of the self, the the desolving of the wrong *idea* about what you are (emotions personality etc). 

 

The reason an enlightened person can still walk and move is because the only thing that has changed is that they realise, on the deepest levels, that they are not human or alive or a person. They subconsciously realise that they are not the mind that thinks or the body that moves.

Once you submit consciously realise your not the person that things are happening to, but infact are the observer. You can still experience pain and happiness, but an enlightened person is like a blank screen that has a movie projected unto it. The movie puts fire onto the screen and yet the screen is not burned...the projector puts water on the screen, and yet the screen is not wet. This is what is feels like. (I only know this cuz I've got a small taste of it, I'm not enlightened)

[ivankiss]

Hello Amirali. I want to try and answer your questions, as I myself tend to get confused about this "from time to time". 

You do not literally kill yourself in order to "reach enlightenment". Although it sure feels that way while you are "dissolving the ego". The Truth is not pleasant to the persona. When you "kill yourself" you simply stop identifying with your "human" form only. With the main character you thought you were your whole life. "You" do not feel joy anymore. You ARE joy. You are bliss. And you are also everything else you can and cannot imagine. Welcome to the forum.

[Nahm]

Welcome!

1. You're already doing it. You have the wrong idea of ego/self - It's conceptual, not physical. The 'death of physical' is the end of the falsity that there was ever such a thing as physical. Joy is. Concerns over physical, death, self doubt, worry, fear, lack - these 'cover' or veil reality / the joy - and keep your mind thinking, when you could be loving. 

2. Someone confused you with 'physical death', understandably, you have equated it to suicide. Don't do that. 

You won't experience formlessness in the sense you understand it now. Your perspective of what you are, and what the world is will change. For the better. 

 

[ground]

3 hours ago, amirali gharib parsa said:

1: enlightenment means dissolving or killing the self ,

There is nothing to be dissolved or killed.

 

3 hours ago, amirali gharib parsa said:

how fully enlightened beings or someone with no sense of self can even function (walk,talk,socialize,...) as a human being?

There is no being.

 

3 hours ago, amirali gharib parsa said:

or they describe enlightenment as being joyful or stronger than any drug highs, how can I experience joy when there is no me?!

There is no experience.

 

3 hours ago, amirali gharib parsa said:

2: after my recent trip i realized that by doing consciousness work im actually killing myself ! how can killing the self or in other words dissolving the ego slowly but surely benefiet the self ?! even so why not just suicide?

There is no self to be benefited and nobody to commit suicide.

 

3 hours ago, amirali gharib parsa said:

for the first question i've got some idea's . by killing the self you become formless so you can take many forms . im not so sure about that and would like to hear your opinions too.

Ideas are fooling a person that is merely an idea.

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by ground

[Haumea2018]

Hi amirali,

1) You can function because "the self" (as you refer to the ego) is only a concept that is believed to have magical powers of thinking, sensing, feeling, doing, etc.

In other words it takes credit for all those things.

But it doesn't exist.  It's just a thought that identifies a false center that thinks it's doing all these things.

But these things are just nature taking its course.  They happen whether there is a thought to identify with them or not.

2) You're not killing anything that is not an illusion that limits your beingness.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Haumea2018

[amirali gharib parsa]

thank you great people for attending

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

Welcome!

1. You're already doing it. You have the wrong idea of ego/self - It's conceptual, not physical. The 'death of physical' is the end of the falsity that there was ever such a thing as physical. Joy is. Concerns over physical, death, self doubt, worry, fear, lack - these 'cover' or veil reality / the joy - and keep your mind thinking, when you could be loving. 

2. Someone confused you with 'physical death', understandably, you have equated it to suicide. Don't do that. 

You won't experience formlessness in the sense you understand it now. Your perspective of what you are, and what the world is will change. For the better. 

 

i know that ego is not physical but still suicide and shedding the ego are somehow similar because they both get ride of the concept and dont worry i wont suicide because im scared of losing my identity just like how people get scared during trips or after years of meditation but i think that people should stop demonizing things and that suicide is worth thinking about. maybe thats the fastest way to truth 

and how can reality , something thats infinite (at least people say so) be joy? something so simple . that does not seem right to me

and in my opinion you cant be loving in that sense because still there is some selfishness in it and in best case scenario's you are doing loving things so your ego can feel good about itself and true love can be achieved only by shedding the ego

9 hours ago, Aaron p said:

Well the small "s" self (human) is just an idea. There is no reality behind you being your emotions or personality or memories or habits etc. So all that truly exists is the true self, the big "S" self which is the observer (you) who is also god. Enlightenment isint actually desolving of the self, the the desolving of the wrong *idea* about what you are (emotions personality etc). 

 

The reason an enlightened person can still walk and move is because the only thing that has changed is that they realise, on the deepest levels, that they are not human or alive or a person. They subconsciously realise that they are not the mind that thinks or the body that moves.

Once you submit consciously realise your not the person that things are happening to, but infact are the observer. You can still experience pain and happiness, but an enlightened person is like a blank screen that has a movie projected unto it. The movie puts fire onto the screen and yet the screen is not burned...the projector puts water on the screen, and yet the screen is not wet. This is what is feels like. (I only know this cuz I've got a small taste of it, I'm not enlightened)

really cool insights my friend but you see in my opinion I am the small self.everything i identify with : my parents , my body , things that happened to me. the small self is these projections(amirali). and i know that there is something beyond but still getting over who you are and what you identify with is really hard at least for me

9 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Hello Amirali. I want to try and answer your questions, as I myself tend to get confused about this "from time to time". 

You do not literally kill yourself in order to "reach enlightenment". Although it sure feels that way while you are "dissolving the ego". The Truth is not pleasant to the persona. When you "kill yourself" you simply stop identifying with your "human" form only. With the main character you thought you were your whole life. "You" do not feel joy anymore. You ARE joy. You are bliss. And you are also everything else you can and cannot imagine. Welcome to the forum.

actually this is what i got to during my contemplation and trips but the thing is i havent seen beyond the persona  but i know that i am the persona and I started these techniques and consciousness works to make a better persona . seems like ive been wrong this whole time and its better to kill or defrag the persona

 

6 hours ago, Haumea2018 said:

Hi amirali,

1) You can function because "the self" (as you refer to the ego) is only a concept that is believed to have magical powers of thinking, sensing, feeling, doing, etc.

In other words it takes credit for all those things.

But it doesn't exist.  It's just a thought that identifies a false center that thinks it's doing all these things.

But these things are just nature taking its course.  They happen whether there is a thought to identify with them or not.

2) You're not killing anything that is not an illusion that limits your beingness.

i couldnt agree more but you see "i am the illusion" . you have to agree mate that its a hard pill to swallow .and you know whats even harder? that by doing meditation , psychedelics , ... i am getting rid of the illusion = i am getting rid of myself.

 

thank you all for your great insights . maybe im just making a big deal out of it 

[Leo Gura]

@amirali gharib parsa From the POV of you it will feel like death.

The trick is to realize that your POV isn't important. After the self is gone there is no problem. The problem of death only feels real until death happens. After the self dies nothing bad can happen to you, because there is no you. You realize you were just an idea.

Santa Claus cannot die because he is a fiction to begin with. But if Santa Claus believed he was real, the discovery that he is a fiction would feel like actual death to him. But all that ever dies is the fiction.

[Annoynymous]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From the POV of you it will feel like death.

The trick is to realize that your POV isn't important.

@Leo Gura Do you think our point of views dictate our lives? From our POV, do we judge,  become emotional and moralistic? To what extent our POV controls our lives? 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

To what extent our POV controls our lives?

99.9%

That 0.01% is what allows you -- with years of diligent effort -- to wake up.

[Annoynymous]

@Leo Gura seems like an extreme hard process.