How to be wise

A suggestion to deal with the banning crisis

71 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What bothers me the most, and I would never ban anybody for this but I would give some very public spankings, are people who make a lot of conclusory statements and never provide any support for their claims, whether they be anecdotal or otherwise.  These people just drop their harsh opinions everywhere and have no interest in discussion.  It's a disease.  There's only a small handful of people who watch their conclusions and their reasons for their conclusions like a hawk.  Most Egos do not want their conclusions challenged or demands made for detail and support for their claims.  But I find the more self-aware I become, the more I see that as a very neurotic need to "feel right" but without earning it, without proving it.  I feel like asking people -- prove it, either by your own observation or experience, anecdotes, evidence, detail or something -- but support your conclusions.  When you become sensitive to this, you can't unsee it.  Everything you say should be backed up by something.  And you gotta police yourself here and not force others to write you a ticket for it.  I think the best sort of ethos we can have on the Forum is don't say something unless you can back it up.  No more rhetorical turns of phrase being bandied about without any intention to discuss them, and asserted as if they were bald-faced facts.  People differ in how often they use rhetoric too.  Some people use rhetoric much more so than others do, and you can come to spot those people.  There exists a spectrum between extreme "straight-shooters" and extremely manipulative communicators.  I think the moderators should push back on these kinds of conclusory statements with, "Oh yeah?, give us a little more detail, evidence, support for your conclusion/claim."  People need to become much more mindful of their judgments and the foundations or bases for their judgments.

that’s kind of nonsense, i back up my conclusions by being an artist - i back it up with my life so should i always tell my lifestory when i post something.

that’s the facts discussion again. there are no facts for emotions, the emotion/motivation is the fact.

Edited by now is forever

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2 hours ago, now is forever said:

that’s kind of nonsense, i back up my conclusions by being an artist - i back it up with my life so should i always tell my lifestory when i post something.

that’s the facts discussion again. there are no facts for emotions, the emotion/motivation is the fact.

You’re free to disagree with me.  No skin off my back.  And I’m free to disagree with you.  I write what I write because it’s true to my experience.  If it doesn't resonate with you, so be it.

I dislike your use of the word ‘nonsense’ though and I think it’s rhetorical and a bad habit.  What I wrote has sense, you just disagree with it.  That’s a different issue than lack of sense.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

Never lose your white belt in personal development.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You’re free to disagree with me.  No skin off my back.  And I’m free to disagree with you.  I write what I write because it’s true to my experience.  If it doesn't resonate with you, so be it.

I dislike your use of the word ‘nonsense’ though and I think it’s rhetorical and a bad habit.  What I wrote has sense, you just disagree with it.  That’s a different issue than lack of sense.

what i was referring to @Joseph Maynor is that creativity gets cut if you have to back up everything that’s written. because a lot of times it’s just lifexperience or about personal problems and people are still in the learning process. by asking questions in the process, people start to go deeper into the topic and if sceptic about their own statement overthink and change direction, but if you cut this process from the start, you cut the natural flow.

no boundaries was the thought.

Edited by now is forever

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2 hours ago, now is forever said:

what i was referring to @Joseph Maynor is that creativity gets cut if you have to back up everything that’s written. because a lot of times it’s just lifexperience or about personal problems and people are still in the learning process. by asking questions in the process, people start to go deeper into the topic and if sceptic about their own statement overthink and change direction, but if you cut this process from the start, you cut the natural flow.

no boundaries was the thought.

One of the problems that we have is too much creativity and not enough contemplation.  Truth is not art.  What's actual is not art.  Most people are averse to backing up anything they say which is a real problem.  Everything you say in Enlightenment Work should have an anchor in your own experience, and you should be able to say what that is if asked.  And most importantly, you should want to say what that is.  That's a value that has to be developed or otherwise attained.  This is what prevents talking out of one's ass.  I'm not saying you need to neurotically place premises before conclusions in some kind of mechanical way.  But I sh*t you not, I've observed this on the Forum -- and people will say things and have no desire to back them up at all, and that's a real problem.  I've observed the full extent of this problem.  

Edited by Joseph Maynor

Never lose your white belt in personal development.

 

 

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@Joseph Maynor you could also say everything is art, everything is philosophy everything is perception everything is experience everything is emotions everything is everything. and it would be true.

but if people don’t contemplate enough - it just shows it’s a lack of this art.

Edited by now is forever

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20 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Everything you say in Enlightenment Work should have an anchor in your own experience, and you should be able to say what that is if asked.  And most importantly, you should want to say what that is.  

I know you are very introspective and do a lot of self inquiry. I’m curious: from where do these *shoulds* arise? Are these *shoulds* objective and universal?

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20 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I know you are very introspective and do a lot of self inquiry. I’m curious: from where do these *shoulds* arise? Are these *shoulds* objective and universal?

Should you get undressed before taking a shower?  Should you open your mouth before you take a drink of water?  Should you put your foot on the gas in order to make the car go?  Don't be averse to shoulds across the board, that's a Thought that's being clung to.  And we all should too, even now is forever is shoulding in his own way by challenging me.  Not all shoulds are moral shoulds.  One should know the relevant law as a lawyer before taking on a client that has a legal issue that requires knowledge of those laws.  One should have a degree in biology if they want to be a biology professor (I assume there are a few very tiny exceptions to this).  One should do self-observation work as part of their Enlightenment Work.  One should back up what they say in a critical context with evidence, detail, and/or support.  You saying is not or is too is easy, anybody can do that.  Substantiating what you say is a little bit higher level, and it's a virtue to be cultivated.  Most of all, it will get you mindful of your own B.S.  What's actual and what's art are like night and day -- two totally different things.  It's the literal-minded person not the artistically-minded person that has the advantage in progressing from Turquoise metaphysics to Coral metaphysics. 

Edited by Joseph Maynor

Never lose your white belt in personal development.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Should you get undressed before taking a shower?  Should you open your mouth before you take a drink of water?  Should you put your foot on the gas in order to make the car go?  Don't be averse to shoulds across the board, that's a Thought that's being clung to.

maybe but you don’t have to. you could experience something though.

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6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Should you get undressed before taking a shower?  Should you open your mouth before you take a drink of water?  Should you put your foot on the gas in order to make the car go?  Don't be averse to shoulds across the board, that's a Thought that's being clung to.  And we all should too, even now is forever is shoulding in his own way by challenging me.  Not all shoulds are moral shoulds.  One should know the relevant law as a lawyer before taking on a client that has a legal issue that requires knowledge of those laws.  One should have a degree in biology if they want to be a biology professor (I assume there are a few very tiny exceptions to this).  One should do self-observation work as part of their Enlightenment Work.

Nice, haven't heard such clarity of thought in a while 


There's Only One Truth!

My book on Enlightenment and Non Duality

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BHWCP7H

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@Joseph Maynor I general, I’m getting a sense of how people *should* behave. A sense of rules to act the “right” way.

That’s just what is arising in me. You may not intend it that way, yet I can see how someone would be impacted that way. 

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how can we form new patterns if we don’t question the shoulds? and ask ourselves what we want to achieve with them instead? even going further, asking ourselves what we want with the wants before you can ask what you want with the wands.

basic art metaphysiks for all arts.

Edited by now is forever
and i‘m not a guy

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