Spiral Dynamics Stage Green Examples Mega-Thread

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements There are lots of different perspectives. For me, fully immersing myself and experiencing that form of love is beyond any type of observation or conceptualization. It's like describing an apple, observing someone eating an apple, having conversations about the experience of eating an apple and the direct experience of actually eating an apple.  As well, an intellectual understanding of tribal peruvian customs was different than my direct experience within a peruvian tribe. And I still lack the direct experience of actually being a peruvian within a tribe. Various understandings are great, yet IME direct experience is distinct. 

Also, I have no experience about polygamy or sexual relationships within family members. I'm talking about open relationships with people that are unrelated. You seem to say you have an understanding of poly, yet what you describe is very different than what I experienced.

[Key Elements]

42 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Also, I have no experience about polygamy or sexual relationships within family members. I'm talking about open relationships with people that are unrelated. You seem to say you have an understanding of poly, yet what you describe is very different than what I experienced.

I also have no experience in those types of relationships. The question was:

How do you define love in practical life?

Let me rephrase it:

How do you show love to someone in real life without speaking it?

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

I also have no experience in those types of relationships. The question was:

How do you define love in practical life?

Let me rephrase it:

How do you show love to someone in real life without speaking it?

It depends on the person and the situation in a given moment. Love appears and has many forms of expression. There are an infinite number of possibilities. I don't feel seeking energy to define love or create borders around love. That feels like a contraction to me. For me it's about expansion. Yet, I still have just a tiny sliver of knowledge and experience regarding the broad, magnificent scope of love.

[Key Elements]

22 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

 I don't feel seeking energy to define love or create borders around love. That feels like a contraction to me. For me it's about expansion. 

To answer my own question(s) that I asked you, something happened during my early childhood. A family was hiding me in their home due to a "racial" war outside. Ppl were being stabbed to death on the street due to their "race." This family didn't want that to happen to me, so they hid me.

Anyway, this is just one example. I'm not sure how this is a border. We might be talking about different things.

I think what I'm saying is, I met a polygamist in real life who has gone through a lot. He might be capable of doing such things. But, no, I wouldn't want to marry him or become his 3rd wife. 

What I'm really trying to say is, the ex cannot be the best friend and definitely not the BFF. (I could be wrong.) Having best friend and BFF relationships are more profound than entering into a relationship and leaving one day. If you keep becoming the ex, how long are you going to repeatedly learn the same lessons over and over and over again? Remember that Leo made a video on Sameness vs Differences. This one. The "sameness" applies to relationships too. All healthy, functional relationships have similarities. So that means if you keep breaking up, you did not learn your lessons. To prevent yourself from breaking up in the first place, have patience and learn about the different values and boundaries of different ppl without judging them and most importantly, without entering into a relationship with them. You have to know yourself too (your own values and boundaries). This way, you won't waste your time and energy going into the wrong relationships. Feel free to share thoughts.

Another thing I realized is, healthy, functional relationships do grow into best friends and BFFs. 

[Key Elements]

Different species BFFs:

Actually, the crow is the BFF.

 

[Forestluv]

Here is a beautiful example of a woman describing her evolution from an orange-level feminist to healthy green. There are many video examples of people within stages, yet very few videos of someone who has awareness of their evolution process and is able to describe it so eloquently.

 

[Key Elements]

Polyandry of the Himalayas 

 

[Forestluv]

@Key ElementsA great video taking a peak into another culture. I find it interesting how their culture is expanding beyond their contracted traditional view of polyandry and western culture is expanding beyond a contracted traditional view of monogamy. Lately, I've become fascinated by gender/sexuality as a social construct and new expressions that are emerging.

 

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv yeah, but the disadvantage is, now we're all on different sides with different values and boundaries. And, when we're young, we are usually very naive. We don't take the time to understand the other person. Now, for example, if a person holds the value of, "I'm going to stay virgin until after marriage, and my spouse has to too." This person is projected as a very dogmatic / rigid person. This person may keep this value a very tight secret. It's like being "in the closet" for a gay person. However, ppl don't really know anything about the person. It's just judging and projecting. That's why ppl don't really come out and say who they really are in terms of what they want in life. They are also not helped and guided in the right way to find the right person if they ever speak of their values. It's just criticizing from others.

[Forestluv]

@Key Elements I agree that there are unhealthy aspects of Green - such as ridiculing traditional monogamous relationships. I strive to be a healthy green with a mindset of holistic wellness and inclusion for all. For me, potential backlashes against traditional monogamy and marriage is a concern, yet not a sufficient reason to prevent new emerging, ethical forms of gender/sexuality to be freely expressed in our society. I also feel it is very important to welcome in new groups without ostracizing traditional, existing groups. We don't want new ideologies in conflict with existing ideologies. I see various forms of gender as relative and equal.

I appreciate your perspective. I need to be aware of getting pulled into unhealthy green ideology. I've reflected on your posts the past couple of days and I'm becoming aware that I am vulnerable to disfavoring traditional monogamy with no sex before marriage as a thing of the past (mostly due to my fundamental Catholic upbringing). As well, I support people raising their consciousness level and expressing who they are. If someone discovered they were conditioned with traditional views on monogamy and marraige that doesn’t feel right for them, I would support them in finding inner truth about their sexuality/gender. 

[Key Elements]

3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

If someone discovered they were conditioned with traditional views on monogamy and marraige that doesn’t feel right for them, I would support them in finding inner truth about their sexuality/gender. 

I do too. I find that many ppl are not conditioned like this now, not even in India, esp in the modern cities. That video clip on polyandry was from a small village in India. It does not represent the whole India--very far from it. Many arranged marriages there are by choice now, or they go out on their own to choose. It's not like the traditional arranged marriage where the bride and groom meet at the wedding on the first day, and have a 7 days wedding celebration. See, the problem with me saying such things is that no one will know what I'm talking about--not a single bit, unless they're from India or lived there for years. The total number of years I've spent there in my life is more than 13 yrs. How many languages do they speak there? Over 72. Do you see how diverse they are? Entering another state in India or even another city may sometimes feel like you've entered a different country. 

Let me share with you something else. I was working with this person. She's only 22 yrs old and from another country outside of India. After the first week of her stay, her roommate took her out to a bar, and she got a number from this guy. She showed me his picture, and you know what, right away I knew it wasn't going to work out between the two. I couldn't even say anything to her of how I could tell that he's from a different culture. I did not expect a guy like that to have transended his culture. If I told her, she'll think I'm judging. Internally, I felt pissed. I did not want her to get hurt--physically and mentally. To make a long story short, no it didn't work out, and yes it is because of the big differences in culture. I told her that the biggest reason it didn't work out is because she did not bother to know the environment and different cultures of ppl and mindsets in that city. Ppl do have different mindsets and Spiral Dynamics does apply. She said that her stay would have been very awesome but because of him, he ruined it. She was very stressed out most of the time.

[MrDmitriiV]

Here's a perfect video highlighting stage Green behavior: 

Notice the herd of stage Orange/Blue folks commenting the limits of their own mental systems.

Yes, they produce lots of waste (by building and re-building) but they express and embrace the system they're possessed by in what's probably the best way possible. Yes, they still serve their own egos under the disguise of "for the community" but it ain't worse then stage Orange.

For stage Yellow/Green folks, you can grasp lots of lessons from this video. Notice there are almost no black humans, which only proves the phenomena that the reason racism exists is because the vast majority of black humans are still in the inferior stages, like stage Red/Purple in Africa and Ghettos (Don Edward Beck's words). This is a reminder that stage Green solutions (like the Bill Gate's foundation) won't solve the core problems of stage Red/Purple, they should evolve first into Blue/Orange. 

Also, that's why banning the discussion of racism, is a stage Green failure out of many, which result in backlashes like in the video below: 

@Serotoninluv Do your best to ban this post as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by MrDmitriiV

[Widdle Puppy]

Eh, I think this is a pretty poor understanding of the stages and a poor application of them on racism. 

 

[MrDmitriiV]

15 minutes ago, Widdle Puppy said:

Eh, I think this is a pretty poor understanding of the stages and a poor application of them on racism. 

 

What makes you think so?

Plainly sharing your opinion without backing it up with logic/reason/proof is a common ego backlash. 

Did you read the "Spiral Dynamics" book? 

[Key Elements]

@Serotoninluv hey, I thought of a simpler way of explaining all this. A person has to be very grounded in his or her values/boundaries. If a person wants a partner in marriage who is loyal, so be it, as long as they don't quit on each other in the lifetime. You got to be grounded in what you want. Otherwise, the person ends up exploring / chasing relationships--just like in stage orange there are excsses in chasing money and sex. 

And then after the relationship becomes stable, the couple becomes stable, less and less infatuated (honeymoon phase is over), more and more detached, and becomes best friends at least. The relationship continues growing throughout life. That's how it works with any relationships. Then, the relationship phase on Maslow's is over.

[Forestluv]

Healthy green is about inclusion and wellness for all. Unhealthy green is ideological. There is attachment to beliefs. A sense that my beliefs are right - not just for me, but for everyone. It becomes normative. There is often strong emotion and a desire to defend one’s belief’s. This leads to a contracted mindset which can become adversarial to protect one’s ideology. 

For those wanting to raise their consciousness, a good contemplation/inquiry question is “From where did this belief arise”? This can give a person *space* from their attachment to beliefs and insight into their own mind-body. What often blocks us from expanding consciousness is not so much WHAT the beliefs are, it is HOW the beliefs are held. 

[Key Elements]

I'm not talking about attachments to beliefs or anything like that. This has nothing to do with being ideological. I'm talking about the relationship phase being over--transending it. The chasing is over. It doesn't matter what type of relationship you're in--whether it's LGBT, polygamy/polyandry, polyamorous, marriage to your relatives, etc.

Another thing I want to point out, to transend relationships is, let's say a couple has been married for years, and all of a sudden the husband died when the wife is in her early 50s. The wife is free to choose to marry again. If she does, she would have to adjust to her new husband again in the marriage. That could be very challenging, esp at that age. However, if she chooses not to have any more relationships, she's free to do other high conscious work because she has time.

[Key Elements]

On 31/08/2018 at 5:52 PM, Serotoninluv said:

If someone discovered they were conditioned with traditional views on monogamy and marraige that doesn’t feel right for them, I would support them in finding inner truth about their sexuality/gender. 

Wait a minute...what you said here is very crucial.

How is it possible that you're going to help them? In what ways? Tell me. Most likely ppl are just going to help themselves. The reason why is because you don't understand their suffering. Unless you fully understand who they are, and you're willing go through the hell/suffering with them, then you could help them properly. 

Here's a simple example. You know two friends who you like hanging out with. They are awesome well settled ppl with great personalities. You think they would make the perfect couple so you tell them about this and introduce them. They start dating. They're happy in the beginning and become bf/gf. Later on, they fight like cats and dogs everyday and break up. Then, they never talk to each other again or you. 

The point is, if you try to help someone, it could end up hurting them a lot more.

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Key Elements said:

Wait a minute...what you said here is very crucial.

How is it possible that you're going to help them? In what ways? Tell me. Most likely ppl are just going to help themselves. The reason why is because you don't understand their suffering. Unless you fully understand who they are, and you're willing go through the hell/suffering with them, then you could help them properly. 

Here's a simple example. You know two friends who you like hanging out with. They are awesome well settled ppl with great personalities. You think they would make the perfect couple so you tell them about this and introduce them. They start dating. They're happy in the beginning and become bf/gf. Later on, they fight like cats and dogs everyday and break up. Then, they never talk to each other again or you. 

The point is, if you try to help someone, it could end up hurting them a lot more.

Whoops, my comments on ideology were directed toward the burning man video. I should have quoted that post.

You raise a really good question that I’ve contemplated a lot. I advise undergraduate students and I find it challenging. I often ask myself: “Am I guiding someone to discover their “true self” or am I steering someone toward what I think would be best for them?” (Even with good intentions).

For example, many students I advise are pre-med. Many have been conditioned to think they should be a doctor (e.g. pressure from parents). Many pre-med students have not contemplated what they want in life. What their life purpose is. Often, pre-med students have inner conflict. As their advisor, I strive to guide them to discover their life purpose, rather than steer them toward what path I think would be best for them. I may ask them about their passions, what they love to do. I may encourage them to contemplate their life purpose and to listen to something deep within - perhaps they could contemplate their values and the type of work environment they would prefer.

I don’t advise students that are questioning gender, since I’m not professionally trained in that area. Yet if it was a friend questioning their gender coming to me for advice, I would try to guide them toward discovering their personal “purpose” similar to above, rather than steer them toward what I thought was best.  I do have some experience in this area. I grew up in a fundamental catholic environment. I was raised on a simplistic either/or  binary gender system (male or female). As well, I was conditioned with a social construct for man/masculine and female/feminine. For example, I’ve always liked pastel colors, yet I was not allowed to wear pastel colors because they were too feminine and for girls. I struggled for a while with my own gender identity. I discovered that gender identity and sexual expression is much more complicated than a simple male or female binary system. 

[Taylor04]

Leo is an example of stage green. His analysis is distinctly fawning of green, and disliking of orange. He even ascribes some green attributes to yellow in his spiral dynamics video series, such as belief in warmism. (I suspect so he can pretend his greenness is a higher stage.) Belief in an invisible threat in the sky is tier 1 religion. Tier 2 is no longer superstitious. Yellow is NOT worried about its carbon footprint, because yellow has moved away from the psychological need for such beliefs. Green did not anticipate this (yellow) change, and thus leaves it out and pretends the rest of the spectrum subscribes to it because it is reality. Yellow understands the systemic solutions to for example environmental issues, and therefore does not support tier 1 social engineering. Green only understands social engineering, and therefore thinks all stages must be into it.

Greens tend to see orange as controlling everything, while in reality green has been the dominant meme in western culture for decades. It is typically green to overlook their own dominance, and see the last vestiges of orange power as evil right wingers running everything.

Also, it is typical for greens to not understand libertarianism and lump it in with "selfish" orange, as he does. Orange is not both capitalist AND libertarian. Orange is only capitalist, and yellow is libertarian. Greens dont understand that distinction because they lack the systemic thinking ability to understand why libertarianism isnt selfish, but just proposes solutions that rely on systemic effects they (the greens) cant understand.

And vegeterianism is green. Tier 2 is not malnourished.

Edit: And Leo's epistemology seems to be a (more reasonably articulated) version of stage green postmodernism.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Taylor04