Jordan Peterson on Incels and Female Hypergamy

[kingroboto]

exactly, this is the way the universe is. It's brutally fair in a very unfair way. Believe me I sympathize with you women who are close to hitting your wall without a husband because you bought into the strong independent career woman meme. I'd be lying if I said I don't take a little bit of pleasure from this fact just because I've been ignored by the female population most of my life, but what can I do I still have a little bit of resentment left in me i guess. 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by kingroboto

[SFRL]

7 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Cool analogy, lol. 

Well, yes but in the end men are both the company owner and the garbage truck contractors.

I'm in my late 20s now, but 20 something girls are most of the time underdeveloped and naive about the world. Its pretty much being a novice driver with a ferrari on a race track. Danger is at every corner and you've got to make the right choice or ruin your life.

1 hour ago, kingroboto said:

So you are complaining you got a Ferrari for your Sweet 16?

Now that's a spoiled brat.....

[now is forever]

@kingroboto well as all energy is just energy you can still direct that into working on yourself - that’s emancipation.

and who says we are like that. maybe we get the juggler award.

[SFRL]

13 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@SFRL what - you are kidding me ? as if we didn’t have to fight for who we are. ask a woman what she does every morning in the bathroom to be attractive. and please once try to walk in high heels.

Sure you had to fight. But when it comes to the Western World I really don't see the inequality anymore. You won the fight. The corpse has been dead for while. Stop beating it you psychopaths. It's getting perverted. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by SFRL

[now is forever]

@SFRL what - there is no fight - except for the fight with yourself - realize that.

watch fightclub.

Edited July 10, 2018 by now is forever

[SFRL]

7 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Well, your mom probably laughed because you're dad said it and she's probably already older. Older women tend to be much more acclimated to being written out of the sex narrative than younger women because they've already been around the block. They also know that the world doesn't go away because they've aged. Many have completely transcended cultural narratives around sexuality.

But if you're talking to women in their 20s and 30s, they're terrified of being written out of the sex narrative for good. It's something that I've struggled with personally. I already feel at age 29 that I'm not attractive and don't deserve pleasure because I'm not under the age of 25. And it's a major blockage on my personal power which is derived from libidinal energy. Intellectually, I know that this narrative isn't 100% true. There are a ton of desirable women in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. But that's the effect of that kind those kind of narratives. It makes me feel that my sexual desires are invalid, which causes a lot of repression and less personal power to come to the surface.

But young men are attractive to young women. So, they have the ability to be attractive in high school, college, middle age, and old age. So, men are never completely written out the sex narrative. But once a woman gets to be about my age (or more realistically about four years younger), they are pretty much written out of that cultural narrative for the rest of their lives. So, to say that it's somehow the same level of bad, isn't true.

That's especially true given the fact that the most of the attention that young women get is unwanted and sometimes scary. It's often their universal attractiveness and appeal that make them easy to fit into narratives that diminish their personhood and power. They are seen as objects and not subjects.

For men, personal development and sexuality go hand in hand and tend to compound to make a man more and more attractive as he ages. For women, personal development and sexuality have an inverse relationship, where personal power grows as sexual attraction shrinks. It's a hard reality to come to terms with.

So, if you look at this issue being one of the rift between personal power and sexuality, you will see that the issue that Incels are going through is not similar in any way to what women go through. 

 

 

Well I got me a 43 year old Cougarina at the moment and she is still plenty hot so I guess there is hope? She is a nice Cougar. 

[kingroboto]

jokes aside let's be real 90% of men age into disgusting slobs so take comfort in that

 

me personally one of my fantasy is to have a sexual relation with a hot cougar, in a sort of student / teacher kind of way.... 

 

maybe i should join a yoga gym

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, d0ornokey said:

Sooo this is what RSDtyler said a few days ago:

"I keep fucking falling into this trap.

I read posts like this, and I think "Ya I'm being too extreme".

Then I meet a "good girl" and I try to game her without all the fuck-boy stuff ......... and I get SHUT DOWN.

The girl will even say "I just want to meet a guy who runs a business and doesn't do drugs and has a level head" and it's like HELLLOOOOOO I'MMMM HEEERRREEEE!!!  

And then they go date a drug addicted degenerate.

I fall back into that trap because of the negative influence of this forum and mainstream society that keeps telling me "A high quality woman will appreciate a high quality guy".

Which is just flat wrong.

I'm a high quality guy and I like HOT women.  I often date Instagram models and strippers because they are insanely hot.

You can laugh at this and call it a flaw in my character, but when you have a perfect 10 professional hottie riding your cock.... I gotta be honest, there are few physical pleasures in life on that level.

So if I fall into the same trap, and I'm a quality guy I think ... then i gotta remind myself that women do too.

And stop believing this "quality attracts quality" bullshit.

Humans are humans.  We like to feel super super super good whenever we can.  So be a sexual guy with women and they will appreciate it.  Stop correlating all this career and personal development shit with getting laid - too idealistic, not based in how reality actually works.

Tyler"

So does Tyler mean this exclusively for having sex and getting laid at the club? So does this mean getting laid as not orange will be difficult? 

Or because hes too orange value system and doesnt know better?  

This is so toxic and neurotic I don't even know where to begin deconstructing it.

That's how the world looks like when you're at Tyler's level of consciousness.

At higher levels of consciousness, it does not look like that.

The fundamental problem with PUAs is, they want to bang the hottest 0.001% of girls, a new one very week, and when that girl rejects him or refuses to sleep with him within 4 hours of meeting him, he gets pissy and blames her for it. Because of course PUA can't be wrong by definition.

Are young women in their early 20's attracted to low-quality men? Of course! In the same way that people are attracted to low quality food. The solution isn't to start another McDonalds. The supermodel girls in their 20's are immature and unconscious and have no idea how to select proper mates. PUA then blames and exploits them for it.

Yes, you will definitely have more sex by manipulating girls. Just like you will definitely earn more money by manipulating and cheating customers. But that's not what you really want in the end.

You don't really want a new supermodel girl every week. What you want is 1 girl who are able to love and build a deep relationship with. She doesn't even have to be that hot. That's your insatiable ego at work.

The counter-intuitive move for Tyler here would be to say, "I will surrender my desire for sex with a new super-model girl every week." The problem isn't that he can't get girls. The problem is that he is trying to reach God/Infinity through sex/girls/pickup, and this will NEVER work. Materialism never works. But rather than admitting that, the PUA will blame the women.

You have to understand that PUAs are fundamentally incapable of being in relationships because they are too narcissistic and manipulative to have an honest, intimate, loving relationship. They are too immature to be vulnerable and to commit to one woman. Many PUAs are really just sex and ego addicts without realizing it. PUA becomes just another materialist escape, no different than TV, drugs, or porn. It's a 1st and 2nd chakra activity -- driven by very low consciousness needs.

[kingroboto]

5 minutes ago, SFRL said:

Well I got me a 43 year old Cougarina at the moment and she is still plenty hot so I guess there is hope? She is a nice Cougar. 

please share with us your secrets. Where do I go to hunt for these elusive hot cougars?

Edited July 10, 2018 by kingroboto

[kingroboto]

@Emerald Not sure I buy into that completely. Obviously you have your own distortions just like OP does. I'd argue there's just as much pressure for guys to achieve success before the scary 30 because culturally it has become some kind of a universal milestone where you're suppose to move mountains and have your whole life set by that point or else you are deemed a failure.  Once I got past the point I got over it, but it's funny looking at 27-29 yr olds dreading about hitting 30 

Edited July 10, 2018 by kingroboto

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

[SFRL]

17 minutes ago, kingroboto said:

please share with us your secrets. Where do I go to hunt for these elusive hot cougars?

Well this one just jumped me out of nowhere. There wasn't much I could do. She was all over me. 

But I have spotted them prowling around the deep marshes of Tinder and Match.com as well. I am sure you can hunt some there. 

[Leo Gura]

Quote

"It's hard to reason with a man who thinks with his dick."

-- Sadhguru

[Systemic]

I just want to point out that JP stance on this seems to be misunderstood by some in this thread.

JP talks in large scale macro levels often and then people bring those same ideas down to the micro level misconstruing his beliefs.

Individual Micro-level = JP believes and advocates that when a man is getting rejected by all women, the fault is not in the women but in the man. And that the man needs to take on the responsibility, get his life together and become a better man which will therefore make him much more attractive to women and help him with his problem.

Society Wide Macro-level = He says that men who fail to have any mating opportunities get angry and violent and that societies that are structured in a way where there are less of those men around makes for a less violent society. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Systemic

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Did Sadhguru really say that? 

"At least 50% of internet quotes are fake."

-- Eckhart Tolle

[CreamCat]

@MM1988 I think you are too neurotic about getting sex. You need balance. Be cooler about sex. If you are neurotic and needy around women, women will avoid you.

[ULFBERHT]

You guys who are boo-hooing about some arcane theories regarding female sexual strategy as an excuse for why you can't get a date need to quit your pity party already. For fuck's sake. I'm an ordinary male who's in his mid-twenties, hasn't yet completed his degree, is working a blue collar job, has average physical features, and is definitely not the stereotypical "alpha male" type guy, but somehow has never had a problem getting a girlfriend. Work on yourself, set some goals and achieve them, get some skills, and the women will come.

Edit: I realized the pun only after I wrote this, but I stand by it.

Edited July 11, 2018 by ULFBERHT
Pun

[CreamCat]

@Emerald I thnk you fell into the trap of buying into societal pressure. My parents have put enormous pressure on me with regard to marriage. They often emphasize how I need to man up by making more money and hooking up a woman. Tell a poor person to make more money, and see how it turns out. It's like telling a cancer patient to get better instead of paying for the patient's surgeries.

Men are not having it better. The evolutionary pressure is enormous on both sides. If you buy into the narrative that women's worth is primarily determined by physical attractiveness and validation from the other sex, you are disempowering yourself. Take responsibility for your self worth. I chose not to buy into the narrative that men's worth is determined by muscles, height, masculine face, and money. Women don't have less power just because society wants to make women believe their worth is determined by physical attractiveness.

We need some balance here. Be cool about dating and marriage. But, I should probably worry about about dating and marriage because I'm too cool.

Edited July 11, 2018 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

It's probably easier for me to surrender because I haven't had sex for my entire life. I made peace with not having a girl friend and not having sex at some point. I still have monkey sex drive. If you withdraw from something for long periods of time, you will eventually surrender.

I will probably have sex when there is good reason to have sex.

Edited July 11, 2018 by CreamCat

[aurum]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is so toxic and neurotic I don't even know where to begin deconstructing it.

That's how the world looks like when you're at Tyler's level of consciousness.

At higher levels of consciousness, it does not look like that.

I'll challenge you on this since I doubt anyone else will. I think your critique of Tyler is unnecessarily harsh.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The fundamental problem with PUAs is, they want to bang the hottest 0.001% of girls, a new one very week

That's a very cartoon version of PUA and you should know that after being in the community.

Most "PUAs" are not trying to bang the hottest .001% of girls, they're way too intimidated by them. I WISH more guys I knew actually wanted to go for those girls, I'd have much better wingmen.

Most guys I see get into PUAs are scared nerds who just want a girlfriend that is moderately attractive. That's all they really feel they deserve.

There are exceptions of course, and their preferences will evolve as they evolve.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

and when that girl rejects him or refuses to sleep with him within 4 hours of meeting him, he gets pissy and blames her for it. Because of course PUA can't be wrong by definition.

Sure, if a guy is new to PUA and he sucks at it.

That's not because a "PUA can't be wrong". It's a coping mechanism to deal with rejection.

Most people have core beliefs about their unworthiness, and rejections are like salt in the wound. So of course people who aren't ready to heal that will project.

That doesn't mean it's wrong. That's the healing process.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Are young women in their early 20's attracted to low-quality men? Of course! In the same way that people are attracted to low quality food. The solution isn't to start another McDonalds. The supermodel girls in their 20's are immature and unconscious and have no idea how to select proper mates. PUA then blames and exploits them for it.

Never in my life have I seen advocate Tyler advocate to become another "McDonalds". He always places a strong emphasis on personal growth, spriritual growth, life purpose, and coming into your own as a man.

The distinction here is that he doesn't believe you should do that IN ORDER TO GET GIRLS. There is some overlap between self-actualization and meeting women, but it's not necessary.

Do it because it fulfills you and leads to your best life.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, you will definitely have more sex by manipulating girls. Just like you will definitely earn more money by manipulating and cheating customers. But that's not what you really want in the end.

You'd have to define what you mean by manipulation and what manipulation is not, but generally speaking I'd say that's false. Not in the long term at least.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't really want a new supermodel girl every week. What you want is 1 girl who are able to love and build a deep relationship with. She doesn't even have to be that hot. That's your insatiable ego at work.

This is not necessarily true at all.

I do know friends who have fallen into the "must have a new girl all the time" trap. And it sucks to see because you know they're not happy.

But, you're dismissing a whole lot of valid lifestyles. I know people who are very happy being polyamorous, open and single.

We get a lot of conditioning telling us that monogamy is the only answer. But is that actually true for everyone?

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The counter-intuitive move for Tyler here would be to say, "I will surrender my desire for sex with a new super-model girl every week." The problem isn't that he can't get girls. The problem is that he is trying to reach God/Infinity through sex/girls/pickup, and this will NEVER work. Materialism never works. But rather than admitting that, the PUA will blame the women.

Again, you're making a lot of assumptions here. Tyler speaks very openly about the spiritual work he does that doesn't involve pickup.

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to understand that PUAs are fundamentally incapable of being in relationships because they are too narcissistic and manipulative to have an honest, intimate, loving relationship. They are too immature to be vulnerable and to commit to one woman. Many PUAs are really just sex and ego addicts without realizing it. PUA becomes just another materialist escape, no different than TV, drugs, or porn. It's a 1st and 2nd chakra activity -- driven by very low consciousness needs.

Maybe some, you're making a very broad generalization.

For me I'd actually say it's the other way around. I wasn't capable of being in a loving relationship UNTIL I did pickup.

It was / is a healing process. It helped me let go of a lot of negative beliefs about women and relationships, and only then was I able to actually be in one. It also gave me the skill set and experience to know how to attract the kind of girl I wanted.

I'll be very blunt. I think you're a highly evolved guy, but I would consider that you may have some shadow work to be done when it comes to receiving. Consider that PUAs are a trigger for you.

Besides that, you definitely made some good points. Thanks for forcing me to consider my beliefs on the subject.