Leos latest episode on consciousness - A question

[Ananta]

 

2 hours ago, Saumaya said:

It seems like you are not going to admit what you have done.  

 

Seriously? 

If i mis-understood what Faceless said or meant, then ok, my bad. But, hes not the one crying about it, you are, which I find .....strange.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Anna1

[Saumaya]

4 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

my bad

Was that so hard

[Ananta]

4 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Was that so hard

"If i mis-understood......"

...and I'm not convinced that I did.

 

[Saumaya]

12 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

Ok. Let's investigate this.

"The non duality traditions may attempt to express non duality."

What do you mean by that? Have you studied any of the traditions.

If so, which ones?

 

Non duality can only be expressed in form of pointers. True Non Duality is to be practised. Layers of Self are removed till No Self remains.

I did study Zen and Advaita Vedanta long ago, but I dont have any interest in them any longer.

[Saumaya]

11 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

"If i mis-understood......"

...and I'm not convinced that I did.

 

lol, my point just not disagree with him because you dont like him. Misunderstanding him is not the issue

[Saumaya]

Just now, Etagnwo said:

So you are saying that advaita vedanta and Zen don't have any pointers, or practices, and that they only express what non duality is?

 

Im saying they only have pointers, not actual Non Duality. Traditions can only express Non duality or give some sort of a pointer. True Non duality is practised and includes the work done on oneself.

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, Etagnwo said:

?

What is the confusion?

[Saumaya]

Just now, Etagnwo said:

Honestly, I have no idea what you're trying to express.

I need some context. 

 

OK, lets bring it back to you, what is Non Duality to you?

[Saumaya]

4 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

Are you saying that schools don't have actual practices for realization? 

Nah, but this is interesting. What practices do you think can actually help you reach enlightenment?

[Faceless]

I never learned about non-duality, as to me that has no meaning. All we can do is understanding the dualistic movements in ourselves. 

 

To attempt to understand non-duality through dualistic eyes is to miss the point all together. 

 

I simply learned/understood, duality in thought/self, and maintained/maintain an awareness of that movement in time. 

 

This is how time/thought/experience, ceases to be projected onto what is. 

 

All we can do is understand the known/duality. 

 

In that, without any movement of positve action (divisive action) is the ending of duality. 

 

Which leaves the beauty of that mysterious dynamic happening. Centerlessness and all is center.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Faceless

[Saumaya]

3 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

You're saying that people in schools cannot and are not directly practicing non duality?

 

Unless the layers of self are melting away, no. Any practise that doesnt do that is not a valid practice. 

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

What traditions point to is not what nonduality is anyway. 

kind of true, they only point to non duality. Non duality means to end duality within onself. Unless that is happening, its not true non duality, its just mugging up spiritual concepts and practices.

[Saumaya]

3 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

So you're saying that for thousands of years, millions of students, not one of them realised who they were unless they "melted away layers of self"

 

Yup, unless all layers of self are removed. The gateless gate cannot be passed and No Self cannot become a living reality.

 

4 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

Which practices in Zen and advaita melts away layers of self?

Im not exactly familiar with all practices. I think zen's meditation techniques and koan contemplation can be helpful. Some koans are good.

Vedantas self enquiry can be helpful if done properly

Witnessing meditation by osho is good

spiritual autolysis by jed meckenna

I think yoga and psychedellics are good starting points but do not help further along the journey. I havent done them though so cant comment on them much.

Ultimately it comes down to questioning ones beliefs, assumptions and life story and realising that consciousness is all there is.

[Ananta]

12 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

my point just not disagree with him because you dont like him

I didnt!!  I even said,  "I say that as respectfully as possible". You misconstrued my intentions. It was entirely about the post and it's content.

Ps, I don't like or dislike him, personally. 

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, Anna1 said:

I didnt!!  I even said,  "I say that as respectfully as possible". You misconstrued my intentions. It was entirely about the post and it's content.

Ps, I don't like or dislike him, personally. 

Cool

[Ananta]

@Saumaya

"Vedanta is not a philosophy or a mystical path. It is a proven means of Self knowledge, compiled over thousands of years by countless Indian Seers that systematically reveals the irrefutable logic of the nature of reality to inquiring minds. It is “the knowledge that ends the quest for knowledge” and irrevocably removes ignorance of our true nature as whole and complete action less awareness. Once this knowledge is assimilated and the Self revealed to be yourself, existential suffering ends."

~James Swartz

 

So, when I said Vedanta teaches Self-knowledge, this is what I meant. 

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Etagnwo said:

If you never studied any tradition, how can you make a comment on what they teach? 

It's like me having an opinion on football but never having seen a football match or knowing what a football game is

I understand. 

Soon or later it may click for you. 

Im not doubting you??

Edited June 4, 2018 by Faceless

[Saumaya]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

@Saumaya

"Vedanta is not a philosophy or a mystical path. It is a proven means of Self knowledge, compiled over thousands of years by countless Indian Seers that systematically reveals the irrefutable logic of the nature of reality to inquiring minds. It is “the knowledge that ends the quest for knowledge” and irrevocably removes ignorance of our true nature as whole and complete action less awareness. Once this knowledge is assimilated and the Self revealed to be yourself, existential suffering ends."

~James Swartz

 

So, when I said Vedanta teaches Self-knowledge, this is what I meant. 

I understand.

I define Self Knowledge as realising our true nature. As the quote says, it is a means of Self Knowledge, not Self Knowledge itself. The problem arises when students learn the theories and practices without actually implementing them which just means they are now knowledgable idiots, not Self Realised. Thats what I am afraid of and that's why I don't like the word Self Knowledge altogether.

Hope this clears up things from my end and leaves no misunderstandings.

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Saumaya

[Faceless]

11 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

I understand.

I define Self Knowledge as realising our true nature. As the quote says, it is a means of Self Knowledge, not Self Knowledge itself. The problem arises when students learn the theories and practices without actually implementing them which just means they are now knowledgable idiots, not Self Realised. Thats what I am afraid of and that's why I don't like the word Self Knowledge altogether.

Hope this clears up things from my end and leaves no misunderstandings.

 

Clears it up pretty well

 

Very important this. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Faceless

[Ananta]

11 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

As the quote says, it is a means of Self Knowledge, not Self Knowledge itself.

Right. All along the point has been that Self knowledge (not realization), can be taught and "means of" literally means -"a system by which a result is brought about; a method." In this case, a method for Self-realization.

So, it's a method of Self knowledge that removes igonorance in the mind, suffient enough to realize the Self and assimilate that knowledge.

(I get you take self knowledge= Self realization, but that's not what I was saying in this thread)

Just a bunch of mis-understanding through out this thread. I'm tired, im going to bed now.