One of our forum members (vanish) may have committed suicide in the name of Truth

[Truth]

51 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Could have been a trolling job.  Just my sense from going back and reading the posts. 

Makes sense. I mean his name IS VANISH. he just happens to vanish.. kind of ironic. 

[Torkys]

I held back from joking about his name, I noticed this as well @Truth.

@Joseph Maynor What else could you find that make him seem like a troll? That suicide post was so stereotypically evil to me it's hard to believe.

Repeating that one idea over and over - letting thyself die - could be another sign but this is so @Etherish that I wouldn't be surprised if he really believed it

Edited April 4, 2018 by Torkys

[Ether]

@Torkys Sometimes i go into a place and i takeover

Killing myself, drinking ether, pain over

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, Torkys said:

I held back from joking about his name, I noticed this as well @Truth.

@Joseph Maynor What else could you find that make him seem like a troll? That suicide post was so stereotypically evil to me it's hard to believe.

Repeating that one idea over and over - letting thyself die - could be another sign but this is so @Etherish that I wouldn't be surprised if he really believed it

Exactly.  There was a mocking quality and a premeditated quality to the whole thing.  If you’re gonna off yourself, why would you be interested in making arguments about it?  But this is just a sense I get.  Something seems off.  The whole Fight Club stuff seemed really childish.  Its like the dude was mocking Leo and Nihilism.  And the masturbation stuff.  The way he said he quit his job.  Read between the lines!   It’s dark satire. It’s like let me show you how evil you are Leo.  That’s the subtext.  Your philosophy of death is worthy of mockery.  See?  Who asks “what do you prefer cremation or burial?” if they are gonna kill themselves?  Why would you care?  It sounds like a premeditated troll job probably by someone who wanted to goose Leo for some reason.  This guy said he was a 31 year old software engineer.  Does that compute?  Do any of his stories sound believable?  Use your discernment!  I think the fact that I work in the legal profession gives me a very cold kind of common sense for sniffing out BS.  But I could be wrong of course.  

Edited April 5, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Robert]

Hopefully he was a troll. If he was real and actually did what he said he was gonna do, that would be so sad.

[Epiphany_Inspired]

 @Truth ...or maybe not... one of my favorite friends ever was known as Ghost, and now he is one.... sometimes there is an underlying reason people choose these names... through my lenses: there have been beautiful, and profound, and limited, and confusing comments, like a melting pot, in this thread... to answer the initial question to the best of my ability... @Torkys ... well, I have been concerned about this since the early days of the forum and even said so in one of my threads once... I thought of the delicacy of the vulnerable... that said, I think of all of the help and support here... all of the love, authenticity, open-ness, and wisdom and my heart rests in the embrace of this community, like a family....  and I have total acceptance of nothing, anything or everything in relation to vanish vanishing... and send love regardless ....

[pluto]

On 4/5/2018 at 5:49 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

Could have been a trolling job.  Just my sense from going back and reading the posts. 

What if i told you the troll and the other are one and the same

[Aftermarket]

7 hours ago, pluto said:

What if i told you the troll and the other are one and the same

Oh come on shut the fuck up. These jokes are extremely inappropriate even if theres a chance he was a troll. We have proof for neither so it could be a 50/50.

This forum and leo himself keep trending towards nihilism where basic compassion goes out of the window. 

If youre using nonduality to invalidate duality that IS NOT WHAT THE BUDDHA SAID. Youre not walking majjhima patipada (the middle path) which is literally what the noble eightfold path is called. Otherwise youre just spiritually bypassing.

Cases like these will keep on happening too by the way, like 2nd poster in this thread said if you identify with this overtop nihilism youre a danger case already. Its telling that this forum has a mental health section at all, ever thought about that?

Inb4 "wow look at this huge ego" well, the idea of the path was to get more compassionate and loving wasnt it? Of course enlightened guys shit on other peoples graves.

[Nahm]

@Aftermarket Could you add some references/ links regarding the offered content supporting nihilism? Thanks! ??

Or were you referring to posts from members and I’m misunderstanding you?

Also, please refrain from directly swearing at people. Thanks again. 

[Aftermarket]

Alright I wont swear again.

Well Leos general stance on non-doership, when leaving out relative truth, is hardcore fatalism. There is only no free will at the highest level, but individually, there is. Buddhism therefore teaches law of karma which at least acknowledges free will to some extent.

I also meant members too, see blazes post on the second page where he clearly states that this guys death is only relevant due to attachmen of our egos, completly ignoring that this death was one where we right here could have had an impact to prevent. Which again is nihilism because he states his death does not matter, which again is wrong view.

Im assuming leo got his knowledge of nondoership either from shinzen young or adyshanti (which are the only 2 teachers I see online agreeing on this topic its only a niche in Zen). Most teachers reject nondoership. 

[Torkys]

@Aftermarket You seem to have a morality and your ego plays a role in that.

Leo, blazed and I (and I think many others on this forum) are moral nihilists. There is no absolute morality. Morality is purely an ego game.

[Aftermarket]

Its alright to be a moral nihilist but I feel like its important to also put this into relation to existing spiritual paths. Almost every path places a tremendous value on morality. Noble 8 fold path in buddhism, the yamas and niyamas in yogic traditions and in hinduism it is said that people who use kundalini energy for any purpose will receive instant karma for it.(ESPECIALLY in the context of ahimsa) Kundalini gurus in almost all traditions will screen their students HEAVILY before initiation because if they give it to a power tripper they too will be morally responsible.  This is also why they disallow all drugs combined with K because it impairs right moral judgement.

"Moral" of the story (heh) for me is that this accident, regardless if it happened or not, could have been prevented, and to think there wont be another case like this considering these topics run deep is highly unlikely. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Aftermarket

[Robert]

@Aftermarket Good on you for noticing the ignorance! Sadly, a lot of people start to lose basic common sense once they learn about enlightenment. It's a real shame. They fail to understand that enlightenment is just one perspective out of the infinite perspectives of God / Source consciousness.

But don't let anything get you down. Your heart will take you a long way! <3

[pluto]

Without direct experience with True Enlightenment it is absolutely impossible to innerstand how some of us see and understand things no matter how many thousands hours of mediation, books, psychedelics, self-work you have done. We have so much more compassion than you understand.

I think we have said enough in this topic and now we are getting to unnecessary levels. Lets leave it at that.

 

[Aftermarket]

25 minutes ago, pluto said:

Without direct experience with True Enlightenment it is absolutely impossible to innerstand how some of us see and understand things no matter how many thousands hours of mediation, books, psychedelics, self-work you have done. We have so much more compassion than you understand.

I think we have said enough in this topic and now we are getting to unnecessary levels. Lets leave it at that.

 

“Mindfulness must be engaged,” . “Once we see that something needs to be done, we must take action. Seeing and action go together. Otherwise, what is the point in seeing?” - Thich Nhat Hanh 

So you can see, but I cannot see your action.

 

Also I went through that guys post history and I just saw that after a comment of him saying "ill kill myself" someone else responded "who is trying to kill who??" 

In the state that guy is/was in, this platitude just doesnt help. Its just spouting the 24/7 basic satsang advice you hear over and over again and even if its true its not what enables a person to get through rough patches. If you tell someone spiritual truths but it lowers their odds of survival, what good were they? If they dont see another day to actually implement them?(not to mention the likelyhood that he hadnt heard that advice considering his time spent on this board is 0%) And I strongly disagree that this topic is hitting unnecessary levels.

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Aftermarket

[pluto]

I guess i just see it as whole and complete already and notice the reoccurring loops.  All the best, stay happy and stay well and focus on what you wish to see in the world

Edited April 7, 2018 by pluto

[Aftermarket]

Thanks i wish you that too

 

In regards to prevention for any such case in the future, could we make a Dark night crisis support pin with all known methods how people can help themselves even before seeking help from a mental health professional(because during those times, every hour matters)

Maybe compile a huge list of things to ground yourself? (Eating heavy or very heavy, white light protection, violet flame purification, walking barefoot, hot bath, distracting as well as possible, no spiritual literature for at least a few days) 

These will never harm a person in a dark night and so when anyone notices someone might be going off the bad end, just pm or link the ressource in the thread?

[i am I AM]

Actually when I was depressed as a teen, I had a "ban book" list for myself which included mainly spiritual and philosophical books.

That does work. the illusion indeed is a paradox...

[Aftermarket]

It works because working with the energy body is the best quick band aid measure you can take in these situations. All deep questions inherently tend to upheave it, while immersion in something brings it more back into its neutral state. Immersion into spirituality and or philosophy is more of a zero sum game, provided you can even do it in such a state (which is VERY unlikely). 

The main problem with the dark night is recognizing at first that you are actually in one. vanish clearly was, but he did NOT realise. Medication is the most useful thing to take for dark nights, but first you need to know you need it. Thats why coming down from 120% agitation to 99,9% has to be done on your own, unless you are in proximity of a teacher who catches you prematurely in your bad state. (How many % of this forum has a personal guru??) This is the main problem with Shinzen Youngs dark night advice he gives. He says he makes the student question the validity of his freakout. This might work under supervision to catch the blowback but if you tell that yourself when youre alone and a fuse blows, youre beyond screwed. 

Dark nights tend to come suddenly, and someone for someone who hasnt been in one yet its basically impossible to accurately predict how severely they screw with perception and can drive you towards bad thoughts. The idea that white light protection should be used in peril has to be drilled in so hard, it needs to be an instinct for when theres even a tiny suspicion of trouble.