Either you are enlightened or not enlightened

[Shanmugam]

@Nahm sure.. :) But please finish those few pages before you share the experience...

 

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Shanmugam

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Shanmugam a few pages left!   Do you want to hear my honest experience of reading it? 

You can compliment him, he has no soul, dead inside !

DEAD DEAD DEAD !!!

[Nahm]

@Shanmugam All done. It was great, really great. I’m going to meditate, and contemplate on it, and I’ll be back. I do have a question for you....

Do you create your own reality?

[Shanmugam]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Shanmugam All done. It was great, really great. I’m going to meditate, and contemplate on it, and I’ll be back. I do have a question for you....

Do you create your own reality?

Everything happens the way it is supposed to happen. I mess with nothing..

It is like a synchronization with the orchestra of the existence...

[SOUL]

After many years of not discussing my own ongoing experience and evolution in awakening I eventually chose to engage in discussions because I see other people self suffering and they deserve healing, we all do. I don't really wish to talk about my 'story' as much as I am interested in empowering each individual personal experience in their own expression of it as it is to allow the healing to happen for them.

So when there are people asserting 'what is' or 'is not' in a 'universal' and 'for everyone' way I know that this can bring even more self suffering to others because it doesn't match their own experience and they will doubt themselves. I know this because I experienced it first hand but fortunately I go to the source for my revelation not other people so I always found healing for this suffering. Though, not everyone is this fortunate, they seek guidance in others and their own personal experience is dismissed.

This is why I question the authoritative stances that are taken and I embrace the diversity of expression in the experiences of individuals. The healing that comes in the inner lives of those that are suffering is more important than me telling my 'story' or about my 'ideas'. Awakening happens when people realize their own personal truth as they experience it, the healing that comes from this resolution transcends 'ideology' and is genuine liberation, it's absolute inner peace.

I hope that those who have experiences which don't mirror the ones of those who declare that this is the way it is or is not will be encouraged by me standing true to individual personal experience. There is no truth in capitulating in conformity to 'enlightenment' group think because someone else claims 'absolute truth'. The healing for our own self suffering is our 'truth', it's as individual as each one of us are and we experience it by awakening our awareness to the absolute infinite source in us.

[Shin]

I don't want to spam the forum with an another thread.

(If you think it's innapropriate I will hide the message).

 

Compassion is rising at an exponantial rate, and I'm starting to fear it goes way out of proportion.

Sometimes when I read some of the story in here, I literally cry, because there is just so much sorrow in them.

I never been able to feel such emotions, let alone to be compassionate, and I don't know if I could control myself if it continue like this, I could just lost it and get way overboard.

I wouldn't be so concerned if I didn't plan to start learning a martial art this year, but since at some point I could literally kill someone in 5 seconds, I think I should take some notes  

[Nahm]

@Shanmugam Again, I just want to say it was a very enjoyable well written book. Great job dude seriously. The pieces you chose to include and the order you presented them were a smooth build for me as the reader. I think you found a great mix of when to add your personal history and insight, and when to resource from thee ancients. Just well done man. I’ll be very easily recommending your book to some folks I know. Looking forward to your next one! 

[Nahm]

@Shin Ya spend a little too much time in the deep end, you get some seaweed on your legs, and it’s harder to float back up. You do though, Shin, you do float back up. Not tellin you anything you don’t know. Just “be’in there”.     All is well. 

Also, once you’re all floated up, lol, you’re big ‘ol heart is gonna dive right back in to pull someone else out. This is good. You deserve to feel better than you have been. The world’s a better place with you here brutha. 

[Shanmugam]

@Nahm Thank you for your detailed feedback..  .. Glad to hear all that.

[Shin]

@Nahm I'm so going to die.

I'm so scared.

[Nahm]

@Shin it’ll pass man. It always does. 

[Deep]

23 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

It is because of this, Buddhism and Vedanta became two different traditions. I have explored that deeply in my book in trying to prove that Buddhism and Vedanta originated from Samkhya or a proto-tradition. 

Can you briefly explain what the Samkhya philosophy is? Thanks. 

[Shanmugam]

5 minutes ago, Deep said:

Can you briefly explain what the Samkhya philosophy is? Thanks. 

The school of Samkhya and the School of Yoga (as per Patanjali Yoga sutras) are the same, except that Yoga has a concept of a personal God(Ishvara). 

Samkhya is the oldest school of thought in India. But all the concepts that is in Samkhya are already in Vedanta and Yoga because they all evolved later as different schools.  I have explained more about the history in my book.

[Shanmugam]

On 2/7/2018 at 10:48 PM, Stardog said:

So to be clear, you are arguing that enlightenment-which at its core can be described as a transcendence of dualistic concepts- is itself a dualistic concept, i.e. a person is either Enlightened or Unenlightened? This strikes me as a paradox. If enlightenment is a realization of nonduality, then how can you apply dualistic concepts to it?

 

@SOUL I know you were raising the same objection that @Stardog is raising.. And I guess I didn't clarify it properly yet.. 

@Nahm As I said earlier, I will clarify this clearly..

I think you are all familiar with absolute and the relative... If it is clearly understood, there would not be such a question...In fact, it is really not something complicated. I don't know why it was made to look complicated by you guys..

I see that sometimes people get so obsessed with speaking in absolute terminology.. If someone asks me 'Who are you'?, I can't  always say 'I am the truth' even though it is true. 

In the absolute terms,  everyone is already enlightened.

In fact, in the absolute terms, there is no 'everyone'... 

In fact, in the absolute terms, there cannot be 'terms' at all, because the absolute truth cannot be said in words.. As Lao Tzu said, the truth that is expressed in words is not the truth at all. 

..........................................................

Now let me come to the part 'you are either enlightened or not enlightened'.. (Nahm, this is what I meant by the word 'binary')

In purely relative terms, a person can be either enlightened or not enlightened. And this is true.

Relatively speaking, Buddha was enlightened. But Donald Trump is not (as far as we know) ..

Relatively speaking, Buddha was not enlightened when he was a prince; But Buddha was enlightened when he gave his first discourse..

And there is a reason why so much insistence on the fact that ‘You are either enlightened or not enlightened’ .

It has been always said that an unenlightened person trying to teach another unenlightened person is like a blind man leading another blind man. Only when a person is really enlightened, he knows what it is. It is only said to stop others from teaching enlightenment. In spite of this, so much corruption has already happened. It has created millions of myths about enlightenment and non-duality.

So, what I have conveyed in this thread is actually a very simple thing.

............................................................

A note: Don't be obsessed with using absolute terminology. When someone asks 'Where do you live?', you can't say 'at present moment' all the time.

 

[Will Bigger]

Either you don’t believe the Truth, or you don’t believe anything.

if you don’t believe anything: Truth is Reality.

[SOUL]

@Shanmugam Did you really just compare Trump to Buddha to 'prove' something? That's hilarious! Haha

I cannot speak for anyone else that questioned the obvious dualism in what you are 'teaching' but I am well aware of what you are talking about and why you view it that way. Although, it's not terminology that is being questioned, it's the inability to recognize any other experience other than your own as being valid.

The real heart of this discussion is about your insistence that there is a binary type of on-off or is-isn't nature to enlightenment without any degrees or levels to the process of awakening. There is no line of separation to cross that Trump turns into Buddha with awakening, enlightenment transcends all absolutely and infinitely but it is our awakening to it that is the change, 'enlightenment' is constant.

This change for some may appear like a light bulb turning on starting in a very dark place before and in an instant the change is so extreme the awakening is an intense realization so the experience of that awakening is dramatic.

In others the awakening is like lighting a single candle first in one spot, then in another candle in another spot and keep lighting candles all around consciousness that eventually the whole consciousness is illuminated so the experience of awakening is gradual.

Are there thresholds of awakening that certain realizations can become manifest in our consciousness? Absolutely.

Are there thresholds of awakening that self suffering dissipates so peace/bliss permeates our being? Absolutely.

Whether it happens dramatically or gradually there is no line of separation drawn between enlightenment and our consciousness. The only line that would be drawn is in our mind and this is what prevents us from realizing the awakening of enlightenment.

[Shanmugam]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Shanmugam Did you really just compare Trump to Buddha to 'prove' something? That's hilarious! Haha

 

 

Yep, I know 

Quote

I cannot speak for anyone else that questioned the obvious dualism in what you are 'teaching' but I am well aware of what you are talking about and why you view it that way. Although, it's not terminology that is being questioned, 

 

I don't write the same thing the same way every time.. There was a reason why I opened this thread.. It was meant for a few people and I know why this has to be said. I may say totally contradictory to what I said to another person if I know it would help him. That's why I am always insisting on not to make any assumptions.. 

Quote

it's the inability to recognize any other experience other than your own as being valid.

Not at all! 

[Shanmugam]

41 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Shanmugam In others the awakening is like lighting a single candle first in one spot, then in another candle in another spot and keep lighting candles all around consciousness that eventually the whole consciousness is illuminated so the experience of awakening is gradual.

1

Yes, it happens...

Do you know that it was kind of gradual for me too?.  It went on for a period of three months, but those three months passed as if it was just a moment..

Did you ask yourself why Osho and Ramana Maharshi also said the same thing as I did? Are you saying that Osho and Ramana Maharshi were teaching things in the wrong way?

I already told you. Realizing the truth is one thing; guiding others is different.. When guiding others, it is very important to keep in mind about the traps and pitfalls.. There have been teachers who always used absolute terminology, but it was not helpful to everyone..

But I don't associate myself with words like 'teacher' etc.. I don't see myself as one. I also know that It will turn off people. At least as of now, I don't have a need to do that. What I usually do is explain a few things to people and point them to other Gurus. 

[SOUL]

@Shanmugam There is no actual determined 'form' to the absolute so whatever we ascribe to it is of our own conception, it is unmanifest potential to be everything and anything while also being the manifest fulfillment of everything and anything so we can find any and every characteristic in it.

So in our spirituality if one says there is a trap or pitfall in the path, we create it for our self, if we say there "is" and "isn't" in the work, we create it for our self and if we create a line of separation between anything, we create it for our self, not create it for anyone else, just for our self.

Consider this when you conceive of and speak about your spiritual life, by these you are creating your own spiritual life.

Edited February 11, 2018 by SOUL

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, SOUL said:

@Shanmugam There is no actual determined 'form' to the absolute so whatever we ascribe to it is of our own conception, it is unmanifest potential to be everything and anything while also being the manifest fulfillment of everything and anything so we can find any and every characteristic in it.

So in our spirituality if one says there is a trap or pitfall in the path, we create it for our self, if we say there "is" and "isn't" in the work, we create it for our self and if we create a line of separation between anything, we create it for our self, not create it for anyone else, just for our self.

Consider this when you conceive of and speak about your spiritual life, by these you are creating your spiritual life.

Damn this is wise!