as tier 2 you need to become rich

[AION]

When you are tier 2, tier 1 people will drive you crazy. It is important to separate the weed from the chaff. It will create a lot of resentment in yourself and it will cause a lot of conflict. When you are tier 2 you just need tier 1 people to be. They have their own generational arch they have to go through.

Now I kind of the get the illuminate pyramide. The upper has to separate itself from the riff raff. And this the hierachy that is needed for civilization to stand tall. Without the elite, there is no civilization.

Recently through serendipity, I met some wealthy people. And they offered to do business with me because they recognized the intellect and where they were when they started out. I noticed some inner blocks within me. It felt kind of surreal. Some rich guy just trusting me with thousands of dollars. But I didn't have the confidence and he felt that. And I just spoke it out and he appreciated it.

When you are on this turning point you need to let go of jealous people and the riff raff people around you. Because they infect you with their mindset. Their hard headedness and scarcity mindset is not only a drag onto themselves but they also burden others with it.

I never had motiviation to become rich because I already have everything I want and need in terms of material stuff. I just valued time more than money. Because with free time I can develop myself. But I have come to a point that I realized that I can't tolerate tier 1 people anymore. And obviously you have to tolerate them but I just want to minimize my interactions with them. 

Major insights I had talkign to reach people is that they are egocentric. Like how else can you become rich? And secondly they have an iron clad frame. Sometimes to their own detriment. But it is also benefiticial. It is a double edged sword. When you become tier 2, rich people will circle around you. Because you have the skills they need. You just need to talk to a lot of people until you come across them and then you are in a different fellowship.

[Alfonsoo]

As a tier 1, you need to send me money

[Nivsch]

27 minutes ago, Alfonsoo said:

As a tier 1, you need to send me money

😂

[AION]

29 minutes ago, Alfonsoo said:

As a tier 1, you need to send me money

Make me a sandwich 

[LordFall]

Totally agreed. It's what separates Stage Green from Stage Yellow. Stage green complains about the unfairness of the world and feels like an eternally slighted victim. Stage Yellow understands the systems that power our world and starts to create new systems that benefit himself or herself and the people around them.

A LOT of Stage Green and below people demonize money as opposed to just learning effective ways to generate value and ways to package an offer. Alex Hormozi's books are great for understanding how to do this. 

48 minutes ago, Alfonsoo said:

As a tier 1, you need to send me money

Hopefully you're joking and learning how to generate income for yourself. Getting others to subsidize you will always leave you under their control. If you're an extremely submissive person it might satisfy you more than the average person but still it'll leave you vulnerable and at the mercy of others. 

[something_else]

58 minutes ago, AION said:

When you are tier 2, tier 1 people will drive you crazy

One of the defining characteristics of being tier 2 is that people lower on the spiral don't trigger you that much, because you understand why they are acting the way they are.

If you're being severely irritated by behaviour that's characteristic of lower stages, say stage green, it's possible that irritation is not coming from a Tier 2 place.

Edited 1 hour ago by something_else

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@something_else 🎯

[Majed]

9 minutes ago, something_else said:

One of the defining characteristics of being tier 2 is that people lower on the spiral don't trigger you that much, because you understand why they are acting the way they are.

If you're being severely irritated by behaviour that's characteristic of lower stages, say stage green, it's possible that irritation is not coming from a Tier 2 place.

@something_else In practice though, tier 1 people are so ignorant they'll drive you mad. Lmao. They'll criticize you constantly for not being like them. 

[something_else]

4 minutes ago, Majed said:

@something_else In practice though, tier 1 people are so ignorant they'll drive you mad. Lmao. They'll criticize you constantly for not being like them. 

I'm just stating one of the defining characteristics of tier 2 under the spiral dynamics model. By its definition it's quite a flexible system and there are always exceptions to the rules. I'm sure stage yellow people still get frustrated with others sometimes, it's natural.

But I think if you find yourself being constantly irritated by people you consider of lower development, it may be time to re-evaluate how Tier 2 you really are, and whether being Tier 2 is just something you identify with rather than something you actually embody.

It's quite easy to look at a description of Stage Yellow and think "yes, I think this is correct and represents my values and ideals therefore I am tier 2" without actually doing the work to embody those values.

If fully embodied, under the spiral dynamics model, you shouldn't really be feeling frustration towards those from stages further down the spiral, as the whole point of tier 2 is that you understand the whole model and why people of certain stages act the way they do.

Frustration and anger become Stage Red tools you can call upon when necessary rather than something the world or those in it make you feel regularly.

[Majed]

8 minutes ago, something_else said:

I'm just stating one of the defining characteristics of tier 2 under the spiral dynamics model. By its definition it's quite a flexible system and there are always exceptions to the rules. I'm sure stage yellow people still get frustrated with others sometimes, it's natural.

But I think if you find yourself being constantly irritated by people you consider of lower development, it may be time to re-evaluate how Tier 2 you really are, and whether being Tier 2 is just something you identify with rather than something you actually embody.

It's quite easy to look at a description of Stage Yellow and think "yes, I think this is correct and represents my values and ideals therefore I am tier 2" without actually doing the work to embody those values.

If fully embodied, under the spiral dynamics model, you shouldn't really be feeling frustration towards those from stages further down the spiral, as the whole point of tier 2 is that you understand the whole model and why people of certain stages act the way they do.

Frustration and anger become Stage Red tools you can call upon when necessary rather than something the world or those in it make you feel regularly.

Dude, you're lost in theory. That's not how it works in practice.

[Rafael Thundercat]

1 hour ago, AION said:

When you are tier 2, tier 1 people will drive you crazy. It is important to separate the weed from the chaff. It will create a lot of resentment in yourself and it will cause a lot of conflict. When you are tier 2 you just need tier 1 people to be. They have their own generational arch they have to go through.

Now I kind of the get the illuminate pyramide. The upper has to separate itself from the riff raff. And this the hierachy that is needed for civilization to stand tall. Without the elite, there is no civilization.

Recently through serendipity, I met some wealthy people. And they offered to do business with me because they recognized the intellect and where they were when they started out. I noticed some inner blocks within me. It felt kind of surreal. Some rich guy just trusting me with thousands of dollars. But I didn't have the confidence and he felt that. And I just spoke it out and he appreciated it.

When you are on this turning point you need to let go of jealous people and the riff raff people around you. Because they infect you with their mindset. Their hard headedness and scarcity mindset is not only a drag onto themselves but they also burden others with it.

I never had motiviation to become rich because I already have everything I want and need in terms of material stuff. I just valued time more than money. Because with free time I can develop myself. But I have come to a point that I realized that I can't tolerate tier 1 people anymore. And obviously you have to tolerate them but I just want to minimize my interactions with them. 

Major insights I had talkign to reach people is that they are egocentric. Like how else can you become rich? And secondly they have an iron clad frame. Sometimes to their own detriment. But it is also benefiticial. It is a double edged sword. When you become tier 2, rich people will circle around you. Because you have the skills they need. You just need to talk to a lot of people until you come across them and then you are in a different fellowship.

The most interesting thing in your message isn't the tier theory, it's the moment with the wealthy guy. You felt the block, said it out loud, and he respected it. That's real tier 2 behavior: honesty about your own interior instead of performing confidence.

Now the part I'd challenge. In Spiral Dynamics, the defining mark of tier 2 is that it sees every stage as a necessary part of the whole, so contempt for tier 1 is usually a sign you're not fully there yet. Your own words give it away: "drive you crazy," "resentment," "riff raff," "infect you." That's a reaction, not an integration. Tier 2 doesn't need to separate the weed from the chaff, it knows the chaff was the grain of an earlier season. You can set boundaries with people without ranking their worth.

Same with the pyramid. Complex societies do tend to produce hierarchies, but "without the elite there is no civilization" is a claim, not a fact, and it's convenient for anyone who sees themselves on the upper levels. Also, wealth and developmental depth are different axes. You just noticed that rich people are egocentric by your own account, which means money doesn't track tier at all.

Here's what I'm curious about: when a tier 1 person triggers that resentment, what exactly is being threatened in you? And is it possible that the "inner block" with the rich guy and the strong reaction to scarcity-minded people are the same wound seen from two sides?

[LordFall]

41 minutes ago, something_else said:

One of the defining characteristics of being tier 2 is that people lower on the spiral don't trigger you that much, because you understand why they are acting the way they are.

If you're being severely irritated by behaviour that's characteristic of lower stages, say stage green, it's possible that irritation is not coming from a Tier 2 place.

I think you can be stuck in a mix of the 2 where you're starting to build systems to add value to the world and you get frustrated that other perspectives don't quite fit into it. These stages are not binary.

To me at 20% stage yellow integration frustration seems inevitable but when you get to lets say 100% integration and 20% Stage Turquoise then the resistance starts to make sense to you and you start to integrate other perspectives into your work and building solutions that integrate their limited viewpoints and resources as opposed to judging them for it. 

I think the difference is Stage Green is stuck in a pure reactionary phase and isn't actually building many systems to start to fix the injustices they feel in the world. The most they do is organize and protest(which is usually a movement started by another person that you just add your presence and emotions to) but when you start to build an organization that addresses the world's problems I think that's when you take your first big step into Stage Yellow. 

Edited 34 minutes ago by LordFall

[Rafael Thundercat]

Stop letting people with zero abracadabra ruin your magic.

[something_else]

9 minutes ago, Majed said:

Dude, you're lost in theory. That's not how it works in practice.

It's a systems thinking model, it's theoretical by nature.

My point is very practical though, embodied Stage yellow understands why people act the way they do and realises that other stages are necessary for human development, hence feeling compulsive frustration towards them should start secede. 

If that isn't happening, someone claiming to be Tier 2 should reflect on why that is.

[Rafael Thundercat]

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I think you can be stuck in a mix of the 2 where you're starting to build systems to add value to the world and you get frustrated that other perspectives don't quite fit into it. These stages are not binary.

To me at 20% stage yellow integration frustration seems inevitable but when you get to lets say 100% integration and 20% Stage Turquoise then the resistance starts to make sense to you and you start to integrate other perspectives into your work and building solutions that integrate their limited viewpoints and resources as opposed to judging them for it. 

I think the difference is Stage Green is stuck in a pure reactionary phase and isn't actually building many systems to start to fix the injustices they feel in the world. The most they do is organize and protest(which is usually a movement started by another person that you just add your presence and emotions to) but when you start to build an organization that addresses the world's problems I think that's when you take your first big step into Stage Yellow. 

The percentage idea is the most useful thing you've said so far, because it lets you place yourself honestly. If frustration is inevitable at 20% Yellow, then your irritation isn't a failure, it's information about where you actually are. That's a healthier position than claiming to be past it. One caveat: the percentages are your own working model, not something Spiral Dynamics formally measures, so treat them as a metaphor rather than a scale.

I'd push back on the Green critique, though. Building organizations isn't what marks the jump to Yellow. Blue and Orange build organizations constantly, and plenty of Green people run NGOs, cooperatives, and community projects. What distinguishes Yellow is the ability to see how the whole system of stages interacts and to choose the right tool for each context. "Green only reacts" is a caricature, and it's the same sorting move again: Tier 1 below, Green beneath you. 

Your own last idea gives you a test: building solutions that integrate other people's limited viewpoints and resources. Take one of your offers or projects and see who are the people you'd normally avoid, and what would it take to design something that works for how they actually see the world, rather than for how you wish they saw it?

[Nercohype]

Sure, you can make money, but how will that improve your spirituality? And the cold, hard fact is that you won't be taking a single penny with you when you die. So, in my opinion, it's ultimately pointless. 😁

Personally, I greatly fear the Egregore of Greed. People don't realize how much it can ruin their lives. They underestimate the power it can have over them. It can lead you straight down into the mud.

[LordFall]

@Rafael Thundercat Yes agreed, I think that by adding the percentage to the model it makes it better, more useful and more practical to assess individuals and our own progress in life. 

I think your pushback makes sense but I will say that the characterizing factor of Stage Green is empathy and fighting back against injustice. Therefore the organizations they build are based on that as opposed to being more systematic and actually causing change.