Dating app and social media are fucking dating up

[something_else]

34 minutes ago, Alexop said:

Nice gaslighting dude. Have a nice day. 

He's right, though.

This thread is just you complaining about others instead of accepting that perhaps your model of the world isn't ideal.

You want the dating world to conform to your model, rather than building your model around the realities of the dating world. And worse, you're getting angry when the world doesn't match your internal model of how it should work, which leads to intense bitterness (what we see in this thread).

In the original post you interpreted a girl at a hobby event not actively flirting with other men there but using a dating app as "dating apps are evil" because that is what you want to believe, and it soothes you. But there are hundreds of other explanations for that behaviour.

[Valach]

31 minutes ago, something_else said:

He's right, though.

This thread is just you complaining about others instead of accepting that perhaps your model of the world isn't ideal.

You want the dating world to conform to your model, rather than building your model around the realities of the dating world. And worse, you're getting angry when the world doesn't match your internal model of how it should work, which leads to intense bitterness (what we see in this thread).

In the original post you interpreted a girl at a hobby event not actively flirting with other men there but using a dating app as "dating apps are evil" because that is what you want to believe, and it soothes you. But there are hundreds of other explanations for that behaviour.

Yeah, I agree with you that constantly complaining about the unfairness of dating or putting yourself into a victim mentality isn't particularly useful. That's actually not what I was originally reacting to, before the thread moved more in that direction.

I do think there is a separate issue here, though: dating apps and social media seem to create a pretty unhealthy environment for dating and relationships for a lot of people. And I don't think we should dismiss that simply because dating apps have become the status quo.

There is a growing amount of research around things like dating-app use, self-esteem, choice overload, loneliness, body image, dating burnout, and psychological well-being. Obviously, the research is more nuanced than "dating apps = bad," and correlation isn't necessarily causation. But I think there's enough evidence, combined with what we're seeing culturally, to take the issue seriously.

I've mentioned this somewhere else on the forum, but I'm still surprised by how many conventionally attractive women I meet who tell me they've never had a relationship, or who tell me that dating apps are basically the only way they date. Obviously that's anecdotal, but I find it pretty striking.

Edited 7 hours ago by Valach

[Ulax]

Many commenters here are engaging in advanced/ late-stage simping

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Valach said:

There is a growing amount of research around things like dating-app use, self-esteem, choice overload, loneliness, body image, dating burnout, and psychological well-being. Obviously, the research is more nuanced than "dating apps = bad," and correlation isn't necessarily causation. But I think there's enough evidence, combined with what we're seeing culturally, to take the issue seriously.

Dating apps should be more heavily regulated. They shouldn't be largely for profit organisations because that incentivises them to do a lot of sketchy shit that isn't in the interest of finding people partners. But there's little any of us can do to make that happen, you have to deal with how dating works in its current state regardless of how you think it should work.

[Alexop]

1 hour ago, Ulax said:

Many commenters here are engaging in advanced/ late-stage simping

It is unconscious programming from pick-up and patriarchy. 

"Just do what you have to do and stop whining dude."

You share something you notice, it is perceived as whining. What they need is more femininity. Seeing things from the other person's perspective. Not just judging from their successful Chad perspective. This is why men suck at communication. They have stone age levels of empathy.

They did the same at Miguel's thread. Instead of deeply trying to understand his perspective, they just projected their own.

Edited 5 hours ago by Alexop

[Valach]

17 minutes ago, something_else said:

Dating apps should be more heavily regulated. They shouldn't be largely for profit organisations because that incentivises them to do a lot of sketchy shit that isn't in the interest of finding people partners. But there's little any of us can do to make that happen, you have to deal with how dating works in its current state regardless of how you think it should work.

Agreed, individuals can also put pressure by not engaging with them.

[something_else]

9 minutes ago, Alexop said:

It is unconscious programming from pick-up and patriarchy. 

"Just do what you have to do and stop whining dude."

You share something you notice, it is perceived as whining. What they need is more femininity. Seeing things from the other person's perspective. Not just judging from their successful Chad perspective. This is why men suck at communication. They have stone age levels of empathy.

They did the same at Miguel's thread. Instead of deeply trying to understand his perspective, they just projected their own.

The way in which you framed the thread is absolutely whining. It was not shared from a neutral POV.

[Ulax]

7 minutes ago, something_else said:

The way in which you framed the thread is absolutely whining. It was not shared from a neutral POV.

You will understand when you integrate stage green

[Valach]

Just now, Ulax said:

You will understand when you integrate stage green

These ragebaits dude  

[Raze]

35 minutes ago, something_else said:

Dating apps should be more heavily regulated. They shouldn't be largely for profit organisations because that incentivises them to do a lot of sketchy shit that isn't in the interest of finding people partners. But there's little any of us can do to make that happen, you have to deal with how dating works in its current state regardless of how you think it should work.

This would be the patriarchy that you rail against btw. 

[something_else]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

This would be the patriarchy that you rail against btw. 

How so?

[Ulax]

8 minutes ago, Valach said:

These ragebaits dude  

[Raze]

49 minutes ago, Alexop said:

It is unconscious programming from pick-up and patriarchy. 

"Just do what you have to do and stop whining dude."

You share something you notice, it is perceived as whining. What they need is more femininity. Seeing things from the other person's perspective. Not just judging from their successful Chad perspective. This is why men suck at communication. They have stone age levels of empathy.

They did the same at Miguel's thread. Instead of deeply trying to understand his perspective, they just projected their own.

You are right. We all know if this thread was a woman complaining about how a guy sweet talked her into bed and then ghosted and she felt used he wouldn’t be calling her a whiner and saying she should accept and adapt to the current model because her ideas may not be ideal.

This is exactly how what they call patriarchal conditioning largely was, only men were active players and they were expected to suck it up. They cloak it in liberalism but want to maintain that. It’s just absurd and can’t sustain since they want to undo part of the equation, the limits and traditions regarding women.

At this point the only way to have these conversations is to use word games to frame everything like it is somehow detrimental to women and helps men. They simply cannot process a balanced equation,

Say you make a nuanced argument about how hook up culture causes problems for men by deregulating womens behavior. Theyll be triggered by you bringing up anything that men don’t like and any responsibility placed on women. But say the same thing but frame it as men manipulating women and how hook up culture harms women, they’ll accept the argument. I see feminists now calling hook up culture patriarchy and using the same arguments conservatives did in the 90s just framed the other way.

If you made the same core argument from this thread but just framed it as how her on the dating app helps men get what they want at her expense the exact same people who would argue with you will be agreeing with you. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Raze

[Raze]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

How so?

The government (mostly men in power) regulating (same as cultural traditions and laws that regulated dating and sexual behavior) regulating dating apps (enforcing norms on coupling) 

[Ulax]

Just now, Raze said:

You are right, this is why modern feminism is such a joke. We all know if this thread was a woman complaining about how a guy sweet talked her into bed and then ghosted and she felt used he wouldn’t be calling her a whiner and saying she should accept and adapt to the current model because her ideas may not be ideal.

👏

[something_else]

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

The government (mostly men in power) regulating (same as cultural traditions and laws that regulated dating and sexual behavior) regulating dating apps (enforcing norms on coupling) 

It's less about enforcing norms, and more about ensuring that dating app companies are transparent about how they operate. I should not have said "isn't in the interest of finding people partners" as that would involve enforcing norms. It was an offhand comment that doesn't actually represent what I think all that much.

To expand, generally I don't think dating apps should be allowed to exist with the sole goal of making a profit at all, but I understand that's very wishful thinking.

More realistic is regulation. Algorithms in particular should have requirements for transparency, right now they are optimised to make the apps money, which benefits few people aside from the dating app company itself.

Bans should also have more transparency, and clear channels for appeal through a human. Being banned from a dating app (which often happens for unfair reasons) can genuinely have quite a big impact on somebody's ability to date nowadays. That's a lot of power for a single private company like Match group, which owns all major dating apps, to have.

There are others too, for example clear guidelines/regulation on how user safety is handled.

I don't think either of these forms of regulation really 'enforce the patriarchy'. It's more like the health and safety inspectors for a restaurant. Making sure restaurants prioritise customer safety rather than purely profit.

[Valach]

6 minutes ago, something_else said:

It's less about enforcing norms, and more about ensuring that dating app companies are transparent about how they operate. I should not have said "isn't in the interest of finding people partners" as that would involve enforcing norms. It was an offhand comment that doesn't actually represent what I think all that much.

To expand, generally I don't think dating apps should be allowed to exist with the sole goal of making a profit at all, but I understand that's very wishful thinking.

More realistic is regulation. Algorithms in particular should have requirements for transparency, right now they are optimised to make the apps money, which benefits few people aside from the dating app company itself.

Bans should also have more transparency, and clear channels for appeal through a human. Being banned from a dating app (which often happens for unfair reasons) can genuinely have quite a big impact on somebody's ability to date nowadays. That's a lot of power for a single private company like Match group, which owns all major dating apps, to have.

There are others too, for example clear guidelines/regulation on how user safety is handled.

I don't think either of these forms of regulation really 'enforce the patriarchy'. It's more like the health and safety inspectors for a restaurant. Making sure restaurants prioritise customer safety rather than purely profit.

The ban point is very good and I did not realize it. Imagine if you go out to a club and once behave inappropriately and you get banned from all nightlife for life. That is a serious issue for the person. Not trying to defend inappropriate behaviour ofc, but still.

[LordFall]

2 hours ago, Ulax said:

You will understand when you integrate stage green

This is actually what Stage Green looks like in most of the world currently when it rejects Stage Orange and doesn't integrate Stage Yellow. Complaining while demonizing solutions.

This is why I made this thread on problem solving being one of a man's post attractive qualities. Don't you think women have problems too? Who do you think they wanna come to at the end of the day, her man that's already handled his own problems and she can relax and bask in his groundedness or a man who's complaining about how unfair the world is? 

It's hard to learn new skills and match the evolving problems that humans face. It's much easier to blame the world for how hard it is. 

3 hours ago, Alexop said:

It is unconscious programming from pick-up and patriarchy. 

"Just do what you have to do and stop whining dude."

You share something you notice, it is perceived as whining. What they need is more femininity. Seeing things from the other person's perspective. Not just judging from their successful Chad perspective. This is why men suck at communication. They have stone age levels of empathy.

They did the same at Miguel's thread. Instead of deeply trying to understand his perspective, they just projected their own.

Man I gave you the solution to your problems. You didn't ask for clarification or proof that my ideas worked or how do I think that this will change your results in 6 months. Do you see the difference between a victim and an action taker mindset?

The reason why I like social media and social circle game is it's measurable. When you're going to random events and wondering why the women there are not particularly interested in you then that just ends in your frustration and then sharing your frustration online and hoping that other men relate so it brings down your burden of performance and you can relax and be comfortable in knowing that Swedish women are entitled and their standards are ridiculous and they will end up bitter and alone and you're doing nothing wrong.

Or you could host 1 event per month for the next year. I don't know if you're from Stockholm but there are tens of thousands of women there that are down to go to fun lifestyle events weekly and other big cities will have similar numbers. You can use Instagram to find hot women to invite to your events and once you've done your first one you can use the footage from that first event to run as an ad to target women the age that you like and snowball your reach that way. There are different event types to try depending on your budget and interest but photoshoots are a great one to start with. With this plan you can expect that at least 10 new women will come per event so after 6 months you'll have met at least 60 different women and probably way more.

This is not day game because you met these women at your own event they will now be in your network and you can invite them to future photoshoots or any other type of event you throw. Some of them that you bond with will invite you to other events and invite their friends to your events so you'll meet more and more women. Once you get along in person you can also invite them for dates and start to fish from your own social circle. Now you got a flywheel and also social proof for your Instagram so that when you do go to future run club events, women there will be curious about this guy hosting events in the city and you'll start to have mutual followers with basically any hot girl in THE WHOLE COUNTRY. 

You see how this would be more effective than going to random running events and being butt hurt that women don't pay you any attention? Now explain to me how the fuck I was gaslighting you? I don't care if you take the advice or not, your own dating life is for you to enjoy or to ruin. 

@something_else also gave you great advice and you also dismissed him. You're insulting yourself by claiming this is some mystical Chad perspective. It's truly mostly about having a student mindset and learning from your mistakes and from others who have the results you want vs complaining ABOUT HOW UNFAIR THE WORLD IS AND WOE IS ME AND WHY DON'T OTHER PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW HARD IM TRYING 

I know bro, life is hard. You know what makes it better? Results. That's what stage green runs away from. What makes the pain of problems better is finding effective and long lasting solutions. They refuse to do that because they invalidate stage orange because it invalidates their pain. If you invalidate the solutions all you are left with are problems and dead ends.

Good luck living life that way, the pain will not end and only get worse. 

[Ulax]

6 minutes ago, LordFall said:

This is actually what Stage Green looks like in most of the world currently when it rejects Stage Orange and doesn't integrate Stage Yellow. Complaining while demonizing solutions.

This is why I made this thread on problem solving being one of a man's post attractive qualities. Don't you think women have problems too? Who do you think they wanna come to at the end of the day, her man that's already handled his own problems and she can relax and bask in his groundedness or a man who's complaining about how unfair the world is? 

It's hard to learn new skills and match the evolving problems that humans face. It's much easier to blame the world for how hard it is. 

yeah you're probably right

[LordFall]

6 minutes ago, Ulax said:

yeah you're probably right

Gemini said I was not sympathetic enough but that the tough love is more helpful than empty platitudes.

I dislike validating pain like this because I don't think it really solves the problem. Would it be great if you went to random events and the most attractive women there were supposed interested in you for no reason and pursued you heavily? Sure. That doesn't seem to be how the world works though. To me Stage Yellow is being able to go beyond our own pain and also understand women's pains and their desires and to be able to fulfill that before we really overemphasize about getting our needs met. 

I also have felt invisible and unwanted by women. I do recognize the pain that it produces. Some people advocate for just more meditation and trying to get rid of your desires and embrace spirituality and somehow that makes it all better. I found that to be 30% accurate and 70% delusional spiritual bypassing nonsense.

What I found works is to level up my social life and place myself at the top of a high value ecosystem and getting hot girls to fuck me. Life is hard but when I cuddle with a girl I like and I cum in her then we both feel better. Then I get motivated to keep working on my life purpose and business and keep that cycle going. Otherwise I get suicidal and think life is too painful and not worth it. The main and only thing that makes it better is getting what I want in life.

I would suggest writing down all you want so your psyche is not filled with undefined longings and then you go and do it. It's truly diabolocal that Stage Green demonizes money and sex because they are 2 of the best verticals to do self-development and find massive life satisfaction. If you don't master those 2 areas of life then you are bound to be frustrated and miserable.