Women are better hunter, science suggests

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Women are often referred to as mothers in discussions like this.

But men are more often referred to as men or providers. Not fathers. 

I wonder why there is asymmetry there - it appears all over the forum in discussions of this type.

Is it because motherhood is more salient? Asymmetrical model of parental responsibility?

[Willy Phallicus]

10 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Women are often referred to as mothers in discussions like this.

But men are more often referred to as men or providers. Not fathers. 

I wonder why there is asymmetry there - it appears all over the forum in discussions of this type.

Could be because once upon a time the only males breeding would be the alphas and they weren't exactly monogamous.

[Basman]

6 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Women are often referred to as mothers in discussions like this.

But men are more often referred to as men or providers. Not fathers. 

I wonder why there is asymmetry there - it appears all over the forum in discussions of this type.

Is it because motherhood is more salient? Asymmetrical model of parental responsibility?

Because a man's function is raw physical survival. One man can impregnate a 100 women, but that means little if they can't also survive. Reproduction is the easy part for men. 

Historically it wasn't always clear who the father was depending on the culture. But a child is almost always at least tied to its mother. 

The same is often true of other mammals. The one who gives birth raises the kids. The males either help out with hunting/territory if its a social species or they just provide good genes. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

More examples of the framing I am questioning. The prompt to consider fatherhood, and the go is immediately toward male reproductive behaviour and mating status. 

Maybe men do not perceive themselves overly connected with the role. You are, though.

It is the rhetoric employed NOW I question. Right here. On this very forum.

[Jannes]

37 minutes ago, Willy Phallicus said:

Could be because once upon a time the only males breeding would be the alphas and they weren't exactly monogamous.

Thats a pretty huge claim to make. Can you back that up?

[Jannes]

35 minutes ago, Basman said:

Because a man's function is raw physical survival. One man can impregnate a 100 women, but that means little if they can't also survive. Reproduction is the easy part for men. 

Historically it wasn't always clear who the father was depending on the culture. But a child is almost always at least tied to its mother. 

The same is often true of other mammals. The one who gives birth raises the kids. The males either help out with hunting/territory if its a social species or they just provide good genes. 

What if the 100 kids couldnt survive on their own if they werent thought and protected by their father? Lets say its black and white and the men is a survival machine and the women is there to raise kids, then only the dad could really teach their kids any surviving skills. 

[Willy Phallicus]

59 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

More examples of the framing I am questioning. The prompt to consider fatherhood, and the go is immediately toward male reproductive behaviour and mating status. 

Maybe men do not perceive themselves overly connected with the role. You are, though.

They are fathers in so far as their seed is necessary.  They still protect and provide.  Its for the whole of the community though, not just his off spring.

Things are different now with institutions like marriage but a mans biological imperative is still to dominate and impregnate as many women as possible.  

[Emerald]

I'm sure that men may have historically been more likely to hunt than women... though it's not as binary as was once thought.

But women tend to endure for slightly longer on walking journeys than men do.

And humans largely have been endurance hunters, where we just keep slowly tracking an animal for days and days until it's exhausted. 

So, it's not so unreasonable to think that women could have been great endurance hunters. It takes more endurance than it does strength because the animal is exhausted by the time it's time to attack.

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

19 minutes ago, Willy Phallicus said:

but a mans biological imperative is still to dominate and impregnate as many women as possible.  

What exactly do you mean by this?

[aurum]

Quote

“Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that prehistoric women abandoned their hunting while pregnant, breastfeeding or carrying children,” Ocobock added, “nor do we see in the deep past any indication that a strict sexual division of labor existed.”

This is the worst part 

The political agenda is so obvious.

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Women are often referred to as mothers in discussions like this.

But men are more often referred to as men or providers. Not fathers. 

I wonder why there is asymmetry there - it appears all over the forum in discussions of this type.

Is it because motherhood is more salient? Asymmetrical model of parental responsibility?

I think it's because men tend to have a bit of a fantasy of being some kind of lone wolf type that's untied from social support and social roles, when that's never been the case at any point in history.

So, I notice that men are more likely to have a sexy romanticized hyper-Masculine image of some lone hunter out in the wild.

But really... it was just ye olde husbands/fathers in a tribe playing one of a variety of social roles.

And most men's main social role was probably to be a father and to play some other role in the tribe... like a hunter, farmer, herder, trader, or warrior.

Similar to how women's main social roles were mother and doing her role in the tribe... probably dealing with cooking, farming, teaching children, or managing resources.

Honestly, the most traditional set-up after agriculture was discovered is mom and pop farms with a ton of kids. And everyone was working on a role on the farm. 

[Joseph Maynor]

In law, I've seen just as many talented female breadwinners as males.  

[Emerald]

Here's some information that I Googled...

What I typed into Google... "roles of a nomadic man versus woman"

In traditional nomadic and pastoral societies, gender roles were complementary rather than rigidly hierarchical. Men primarily handled large-scale herding, defense, external diplomacy, and hunting, while women managed mobile housing assembly, livestock care (milking and small stock), child-rearing, domestic trade, and often shared in community councils or defense. 

Nomadic Men's Roles

• Herding and Livestock: Guided and managed large grazing animals over long distances.
• Defense and Warfare: Acted as frontline protectors, scouts, and warriors against rival groups or predators.
• External Relations: Represented the household or clan in trade, diplomacy, and political assemblies with other tribes.
• Hunting: Tracked and harvested wild game to supplement the pastoral diet. 

Nomadic Women's Roles

• Camp and Shelter: Erected, dismantled, and repaired portable dwellings like yurts or tipis.
• Subsistence and Economy: Handled milking, food preparation, hide processing, and managed local or inter-tribal trade.
• Child-Rearing and Education: Raised children while passing down survival skills, crafts, and cultural heritage.
• Leadership and Governance: Exercised high personal independence, owned property (such as yurts or livestock), and occasionally served as political advisors, co-rulers (Khatuns), or warriors. 

Would you like to focus on a specific nomadic culture (such as Central Asian steppe pastoralists, Plains Native Americans, or the Sámi) for more detailed historical context?

Then I typed this into Google: "What about before agriculture?"

Before the advent of agriculture (the Paleolithic era), humans lived as hunter-gatherers. For decades, the dominant scientific theory was the "Man the Hunter, Woman the Gatherer" model, which assumed a strict sexual division of labor.

However, modern archaeological discoveries and ethnographic studies of surviving foraging societies show that pre-agricultural gender roles were highly flexible, egalitarian, and overlapping.

The Shared Division of Labor

Contrary to the traditional view that men exclusively hunted large game while women only gathered plants, labor in pre-agricultural societies was highly cooperative:

• Women as Big-Game Hunters: Recent archaeological evidence, such as the discovery of a 9,000-year-old female hunter burial in Peru, shows that early women regularly participated in big-game hunting. Analysis of global burial data suggests that in many early societies, hunting was non-gendered, or women made up a significant portion of big-game hunters.
• Men as Gatherers: Men frequently participated in gathering plants, eggs, shellfish, and small game when large animals were scarce. In most foraging environments, gathered calories made up 60% to 80% of the group's diet, making "gathering" the primary and most reliable survival strategy for everyone.
• Cooperative Hunting: Many hunting strategies required the entire community. Women, children, and the elderly participated in "communal drives"—creatively driving herds of animals into enclosures, nets, or off cliffs, where they could be easily dispatched.

The Traditional "Man the Hunter" Myth vs Modern Archaeological Consensus

Big-Game Hunting

Myth: Exclusively a male activity; defined male status.

Reality: Varied by culture; women frequently hunted large game using tools adapted for skill rather than brute force.

Dietary Contribution

Myth: Meat from male hunting was the primary food source.

Reality: Gathered plant foods (mostly by women) provided the vast majority of daily calories in most climates.

Childcare & Mobility

Myth: Women stayed near base camps due to the physical burdens of pregnancy and childcare.

Reality: Mothers were highly mobile, using slings and wraps to carry infants on long gathering and hunting trips, often supported by community "alloparenting" (shared childcare).

Social Structure

Myth: Patriarchal; men held dominant political power through hunting prowess.

Reality: Highly egalitarian; decisions were made by group consensus, and food was shared collectively regardless of who acquired it.

Why Roles Were More Flexible Before Agriculture

• Survival Required All Hands: In small, mobile bands of 20 to 50 people, a rigid division of labor was a liability. If the men were injured or unsuccessful, the group relied on women's gathering; if an opportunity to take down a large animal arose, the group needed every capable adult to help.
• The Nature of Early Weaponry: The invention of tools like the atlatl (spear-thrower) and later the bow and arrow leveled the playing field. These weapons relied on leverage, distance, and precision rather than upper-body strength, allowing women and adolescents to hunt large game effectively.
• No Private Property: Without land ownership, permanent settlements, or accumulated wealth—all products of the agricultural revolution—there was no structural basis for one gender to dominate or control the other.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

I am a heavy sceptic with all of these evolutionary biology and historical societal structure theories.

I think there is more conditioning around gender and roles than we want to admit.

I think there is often a quick move from observing a gender difference to explaining it as an evolved adaptation, and then from that proposed adaptation to treating a contemporary social arrangement as natural or inevitable. And I think the proliferation of red pill ideology is responsible for a substantial portion of this narrative.

I can't in good faith reach any conclusion based on the evidence (or lack thereof, when intellectual leaps are made).

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Basman said:

Because a man's function is raw physical survival. One man can impregnate a 100 women, but that means little if they can't also survive. Reproduction is the easy part for men. 

Historically it wasn't always clear who the father was depending on the culture. But a child is almost always at least tied to its mother. 

The same is often true of other mammals. The one who gives birth raises the kids. The males either help out with hunting/territory if its a social species or they just provide good genes. 

But the vast majority of men didn't typically impregnate 100s of women and leave the kids to rot... unless he was a warlord like Ghengis Kahn or something.

In most societies, the majority of men had one wife and played an active role in their children's lives.

So, active fatherhood is one of the core functions of men throughout the duration of the human species. 

[Elliott]

19 hours ago, Alexop said:

How can these studies be taken seriously by the science community?

https://www.iflscience.com/women-may-be-better-hunters-than-men-latest-research-argues-71719?fbclid=IwdGRjcAVDwIpjbGNrBUPAZ2V4dG4DYWVtAjExAHBkb2YFc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMzUwNjg1NTMxNzI4AAEejzx-QWBPu-rHAOLh9gF7Nd_lLminTbgNE3AKpcxyw0a4fnnLQ8KIPOwr4n4_aem_JsU8rcpx2Fp_xWn2xfOXtA

If this can pass as science then science is just religion plus some fluke luck discovery by throwing shit at the wall and see what sticks.

Better suitable to run the animals down to exhaustion? Woke dude, men can run marathons (42 km) faster than women. And I can imagine how excited women were to run 20 km after animals with a child in their belly or right before they gave birth. They usually had lots of pregnancies during their lifetime. Generally 4-9 births with 3-4 years in between. Try physically compete with men who are physically stronger and give no births at all.

Women beat men in ultra marathons

Your misogyny is clouding any objective thinking

•

Quote

Long-Distance Trail/Hiking Records: In September 2024, ultra-runner Tara Dower set the overall speed record for completing the 2,193-mile Appalachian Trail unsupported, finishing in 40 days, 18 hours, and 6 minutes—beating the previous overall fastest time set by a man by 13 hours.

 

• Ultra-Distance Cycling: In 1967, British cyclist Beryl Burton set a 12-hour time-trial record of 277.25 miles, a distance that surpassed the men's national record at the time by more than 12 miles and stood as an overall (unisex) record for over two years.

 

Extreme Long-Distance Running: In multi-day or ultra-long trail races exceeding roughly 195 miles (314 km), the pacing gap between genders narrows significantly, and women have occasionally won overall open-division ultramarathons outright (such as athletes like Courtney Dauwalter and Camille Herron).•

 

And more men are socially directed to sports while it's the opposite for women

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

So, active fatherhood is one of the core functions of men throughout the duration of the human species. 

This is typically discarded or overlooked when forming up these narratives. There was no globalisation. The family unit and the role of fatherhood (as well as motherhood) is the reason we survived and thrived as a species.

Maybe it sounds cooler to abandon the woman and skeet skeet all over the place 

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Alexop]

5 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Your misogyny is clouding any objective thinking

I won't make the mistake of entertaining this kind of nonsense again. You have my block.

[Elliott]

Just now, Alexop said:

I won't make the mistake of entertaining this kind of nonsense again. You have my block.

See, zero objectivity, all feelings

[Joseph Maynor]

Evolutionary psychology tends to offer post hoc explanations that aren't really falsifiable.