How do you deal w/ MAGA family discussion at holidays?

[Clabber Girl]

My parents, grandparents and aunt all voted MAGA and sometimes I have to hear crazy shit during Thanksgiving about how the immigrants are doing Medicare fraud, or how a black person shot a cop, and NEVER bring up how much gas costs or inflation or how there's a criminal running the free world. They are *completely* delusional and I keep my mouth shut to save face and keep peace. 

Its getting to the point I am tired of keeping their delusions alive by not saying anything(they never ask my opinion & I am a grown adult), but I am scared to say something as they will spit venom at me. 

Do I go with the flow or speak my mind?  I have never really shared my thoughts on politics and religion and no one has ever asked.

Edited 13 hours ago by Clabber Girl

[Lyubov]

Sometimes silence is best 

 

[Basman]

Don't let winning an argument ruin your relationships. It doesn't matter all that much at the end of the day. Thanks giving is once a year. You are adult enough to not give a shit what old crones say.

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Basman

[Joshe]

Unless you’re very rhetorically skilled and good at debate, it’s probably best to keep quiet. One-on-one is a different story, but it’s hard to manage them all at once. What I like to do is find things I can agree with them on, then use that to smuggle in something to get them thinking more critically. One angle even MAGA can usually latch onto is the “corrupt elite politicians”. 

If they bring up socialism, ask them if they like the government paying for roads and social security and if they say they like those things, then they aren’t against socialism 100%, just to a degree. I feel like this whole socialism point needs to be explained to them at this time.

If you feel like speaking up, pick your battles. I wouldn’t argue with them on immigration/black person shoots cop. 

[Joshe]

Also, it can be helpful to smear a Democrat from the outset. It buys you more credibility with them, lol. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Joshe

[Ulax]

Just say "Yeah you're probably right"

[Basman]

We in general have an issue with differing political views due to being more atomized now, both left and right. Everyone's a snowflake and Americans are the worst right now.

[Clabber Girl]

18 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Also, it can be helpful to smear a Democrat from the outset. It buys you more credibility with them, lol. 

yes - good point, they are easily manipulated! Just speaking for my family.

My mom would listen to Rush Limbaugh nonstop on her way to work(factory job).

[Joshe]

4 minutes ago, Clabber Girl said:

My mom would listen to Rush Limbaugh nonstop on her way to work(factory job).

Oh no! lol 

One example of how you could employ my suggestion is saying something like "Yes, I'm glad Trump got the border problem solved but I didn't like how ICE has killed a few innocent people. I think they could have went about that differently". 

Saying shit like that positions you as someone who can see the value in what Trump does, but also that you're not blindly looking past the failures the way that they are. So basically, try to find cheap points of agreement on inconsequential stuff so that you can smuggle something in to get them thinking in a more nuanced way. That's my current tact. 

[Clabber Girl]

24 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Oh no! lol 

One example of how you could employ my suggestion is saying something like "Yes, I'm glad Trump got the border problem solved but I didn't like how ICE has killed a few innocent people. I think they could have went about that differently". 

Saying shit like that positions you as someone who can see the value in what Trump does, but also that you're not blindly looking past the failures the way that they are. So basically, try to find cheap points of agreement on inconsequential stuff so that you can smuggle something in to get them thinking in a more nuanced way. That's my current tact. 

Yea him and Glen Beck were favorites among my mom and aunt. Good tactics! I guess that agreeing with them on cheaper points to gain some credibility is so obvious but I get very over emotional in thinking of things like this since I am so scared of their outrage. lol.

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Clabber Girl said:

Yea him and Glen Beck were favorites among my mom and aunt

Jesus. I feel your pain. Luckily, my mom is apolitical but leans conservative. If she was a Rush or Beck fan, that would not be good for me, lol. A few of my family members were tuned into Fox News heavily during the Trump era, so they got all swept up. It was difficult spending time with them during that. I'd walk into their house with Fox News blaring and the whole time I'm just like wtf. They'd have Trump coasters on the coffee table and Hillary Clinton's face on toilet paper in the bathroom, lol. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Joshe

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Clabber Girl said:

I guess that agreeing with them on cheaper points to gain some credibility is so obvious but I get very over emotional in thinking of things like this since I am so scared of their outrage. lol.

Yeah, it takes some getting used to. And it's easy for things to spiral out of control. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Joshe

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 hours ago, Joshe said:

Unless you’re very rhetorically skilled and good at debate, it’s probably best to keep quiet.

Fuck. You know what? I deliberately engage in a much more watered down, benign, neutral rhetoric when engaging in political talk with my family.

They are so fucked up, no amount of care bare "trying not to push buttons" neutral rhetoric will work. It is just INSTANTANIOUS rage at someone else not coming to the same conclusions they do. I wish it worked like you propose

Political talk is blacklisted as a topic. Two prominent members of my family are anti-feminism (like "we don't need bank accounts" mode), anti-vaxx (meanwhile INJECTING PEPTIDES which are RESEARCH CHEMICALS), conspiracy theory, MAGA lovers (and we are Australian!!!). 

I immediately walk out and leave the event if these topics come up.

Mostly because I feel a sense of disgust I am genetically similar to these morons!

Perhaps the single worst discussion ever revolved around animals not being sentient. It came out that my cousin was putting his cat in the dryer for (only one or two seconds!) to discipline it. I slapped him and walked out - and I was told I was being judgemental. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Perhaps the single worst discussion ever revolved around animals not being sentient. It came out that my cousin was putting his cat in the dryer for (only one or two seconds!) to discipline it. I slapped him and walked out - and I was told I was being judgemental. 

lol, someone needed to slap that mf. One thing I immediately perk up for is people being assholes to animals. I can't be quiet about that either, regardless who don't like it. I'm a bit more tame than you, though, lol. I would have just said "What the fuck is wrong with you?" and stared him down like we can fight if he wants to. lol 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

10 minutes ago, Joshe said:

lol, someone needed to slap that mf. One thing I immediately perk up for is people being assholes to animals. I can't be quiet about that either, regardless who don't like it. I'm a bit more tame than you, though, lol. I would have just said "What the fuck is wrong with you?" and stared him down like we can fight if he wants to. lol 

As much as I feel like I have worked on so much conditioning - I still lash out (even if just in my mind) when animals are harmed by humans in such a torturous manner. Wales and dolphins in particular. If I see any footage of them being hurt, killed. Dogs also. I get hysterical.

Thankfully violent Natasha hasn't appeared for a good 4/5 years  

[Joshe]

26 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Thankfully violent Natasha hasn't appeared for a good 4/5 years  

She's still there. I saw it in the interview video when you said something like "wtf cu**?" lol 

Edited 6 hours ago by Joshe

[Joshe]

Wtf is this woke auto asterisk?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

37 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Wtf is this woke auto asterisk?

It's always been that way - one of my first posts on the forum was the c-word. Censorship!

bUt mY FeMaLe VoIcE - YoU WanT to SuPpResS My FemINinity

Quote

She's still there. I saw it in the interview video when you said something like "wtf cu**?" lol 

I try so hard to be good. Crazy harpy mode escapes out sometimes

Edited 6 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Leo Gura]

Print out a Picard facepalm poster and just hold it up in silence any time they say something stupid.

[eos_nyxia]

Oof. I really feel for all of you who have to deal with family members like this; my immediate family are all too educated and urbane for this particular flavour of BS. The worst I've had to hear about in my family is my Catholic paternal grandfather ranting about homeless and gay people, but my dad suspects it was due to dementia in the last couple of years before his death. 

8 hours ago, Clabber Girl said:

Its getting to the point I am tired of keeping their delusions alive by not saying anything(they never ask my opinion & I am a grown adult), but I am scared to say something as they will spit venom at me. 

Do I go with the flow or speak my mind?  I have never really shared my thoughts on politics and religion and no one has ever asked.

Risk-reward analysis -- is it really worth the time and energy spent? Do you have any realistic chance of shifting or at least softening their views? Do you want this, or do you simply want to be heard for once? I tend to be optimistic that in general this is technically possible. But in reality, I am a pessimist too when it comes to my own family (separate issues) and I prefer to conserve my time and energy for other purposes.  

My experience has often been that if you into a situation and approach it and other people with lack or wanting something specific from them, that lack tends to be reflected right back at you, and that retriggers the wound, whether it is still very much an active wound or even just the lingering muscle memory of how it made you feel to grow up and be around such people. It's important to go into these situations with your eyes open and your expectations and attachment to outcome tempered, I think.