Almost 9/11 style terror attack

[Jirh]

Gaza is in constant terror 24/7.

[Leo Gura]

You guys are unteachable because your politics is just moralizing.

Wise up.

I am not going to debate your moralism.

Edited 5 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Basman]

7 minutes ago, oOo said:

How on Earth are native Americans relevant? I have never heard of any documented evidence of anything remotely resembling terrorist inclinations from native Americans, at any point in history, technological or otherwise. 

They both a squashed people. Native Americans have been at war with Americans till the early 20th century. They had to take their kids hostage at schools and militarilly quarter them into reserves to squash them. 

I believe it was Hamas that invented the terrorist playbook. Suicide bombing, hijacking, etc. Native Americans had raids and guerilla tactics till fighting became unfeasable. Palestinians seem much more fanatical in comparison. 

[Raze]

30 minutes ago, oOo said:

How on Earth are native Americans relevant? I have never heard of any documented evidence of anything remotely resembling terrorist inclinations from native Americans, at any point in history, technological or otherwise. 

 

36 minutes ago, Basman said:

Native Americans didn't go crazy terrorist when they got squashed. Weren't that many planes back then I guess.

They would regularly raid settlements and slash children actually. 

[Socrates]

When cornered with facts and advanced perspectives he starts the platitudes 🤣

 Calling it moralism, since if you called it what it is- accountability- you'd have to embody it 😉

 

[oOo]

@Basman @Raze Resisting invasion isn’t inherently terrorism. They were afraid, dispossessed and desperate to defend their homeland. Quite the irony, “Americans” celebrating resistance to colonial rule every July, then acting baffled that the original inhabitants resisted colonisation. 

[Leo Gura]

I literally have a book on my bedstand right now full of foiled Arab terrorist plots.

[Basman]

42 minutes ago, oOo said:

@Basman @Raze Resisting invasion isn’t inherently terrorism. They were afraid, dispossessed and desperate to defend their homeland. 

They probably could have gone the terrorist route is my point. Terrorism is just a strategy. 

And it was a war. They just lost and got genocided. They had no qualms about genociding their enemies themselves, make no mistake. Whitewashing Native Americans is cringe propaganda.

It's funny, because people have no issue remembering that the Aztecs where brutal but when it comes North-American Natives its controversial to say they where anything but peace loving hapless victims, despite Aztecs also being Native Americans and one of their biggest cultures at that. Of course because the South-American genocides where Spanish and not political to Americans. White guilt is real brah.  

Edited 3 hours ago by Basman

[Raze]

1 hour ago, oOo said:

@Basman @Raze Resisting invasion isn’t inherently terrorism. They were afraid, dispossessed and desperate to defend their homeland. Quite the irony, “Americans” celebrating resistance to colonial rule every July, then acting baffled that the original inhabitants resisted colonisation. 

If they were around today they would be called terrorists and the media would be discussing how it justifies killing more of them and taking more of their land 

[Leo Gura]

Even if terrorism is warranted, it still cannot be allowed. That is what makes terrorism a dead end.

It doesn't matter if you have a just cause, as soon as you start doing terrorism, you've lost all moral ground.

Netanyahu understands this, and he uses it against the Arabs.

No matter how bad Israel acts, it's still not as bad as hijacking an airplane.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[oOo]

@Basman, “they just lost and got genocided” makes genocide sound like the Amazon cancellation fee for losing a war. Recognising dispossession doesn’t require pretending every Indigenous person was a saint. And the Aztecs were in Mexico, in North America. Let’s leave at least the geography undisplaced.

@Raze, your scenario practically writes the New York Times propaganda press release: “We took their land. Their objections have made us feel unsafe. Regrettably, we’ll need the rest.”

Then a studio panel debates why the displaced aren’t embracing peaceful dialogue about which remaining possessions they should surrender. Apparently “defending the homeland” becomes much easier once you’ve helped yourself to somebody else’s.

C'mon guys, let's be real here.

[Raze]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

No matter how bad Israel acts, it's still not as bad as hijacking an airplane.

Planes are hijacked to get hostages. Israel keeps plenty of civilians prisoner as bargaining chips. Effectively it’s the same, except a state is responsible for one.

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, Raze said:

Planes are hijacked to get hostages. Israel keeps plenty of civilians prisoner as bargaining chips. Effectively it’s the same, except a state is responsible for one.

It is not the same.

You are looking at this purely from a material perspective, like hostages or lives lost. But the how of it matters.

There is a difference between killing a little girl with a bomb accidentally vs cutting her apart with a knife with a smile. Those are different things even though in both cases there is 1 material death.

And yes, Israelis do take pleasure in killing Arabs, I don't deny that. But Israelis are not flying planes into skyscrapers. That is an important difference.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[oOo]

57 minutes ago, Raze said:

Planes are hijacked to get hostages. Israel keeps plenty of civilians prisoner as bargaining chips. Effectively it’s the same, except a state is responsible for one.

Hamas launched the 7 October attack that triggered the Gaza war. Israel has a legitimate need to prevent a repeat, and credible deterrence can require military force rather than peaceful assurances alone. I’m not excusing war crimes; I’m defending the need to make further attacks harder and more costly. Especially when Hamas have such ease, and yes Hamas specifically fall into this kind of terrorism, use their children as suicide bombers. It only makes their narratives around war-crimes by Israel look like pure manipulation, political steering and further fuelling of hatred towards Israel from their people. Also, its important to take a more global geopolitical view when it comes to getting good at analysing strategies employed in international conflicts. For example, there is a limited parallel with NATO strengthening its defences against Russian aggression, but much more covert forms of strategy are needed against a much more complex geopolitical economy of outcomes in light of Russians far superior force compared to Palestine, along with their alliances becoming stronger with China. Not to mention Russia's recent proclamations around the potential use of nuclear force against any attempts by member nations with NATO; recent case regarding any potential Karliningrad blockade. 

You gotta take your time to see through the bullshit before you unknowingly become a puppet for propaganda. 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by oOo

[Jirh]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

No matter how bad Israel acts, it's still not as bad as hijacking an airplane.

Israel is infinitely worse than any Hitler that ever existed. They have been strangling an entire strip for years. And the whole world is aware and watching.

Edited 1 hour ago by Jirh

[oOo]

1 minute ago, Jirh said:

Israel is infinitely worse than any Hitler that ever existed.

Did you read my comment directly above you?

Cite clear comparative examples.

I am sensing prejudice, so prove me wrong; or not and stay in your position. 

[Jirh]

38 minutes ago, oOo said:

Hamas launched the 7 October attack that triggered the Gaza war. Israel has a legitimate need to prevent a repeat, and credible deterrence can require military force rather than peaceful assurances alone.

7 October is not some event that happened in a vacuum. Israel has been killing Gazans and Palestinians for decades before 2023. Gaza was already blockaded when the attack happened, it was daily raided and civilians and children were daily killed. But you don't hear about it as often because Arab lives don't matter to western media. Death is the norm for Gazans.

You hear about the plane hijack. It floods your news feed because it's an anomaly in stable Israeli life.

[Jirh]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But Israelis are not flying planes into skyscrapers.

They don't need to. They have and daily use aircraft with bombs that can deal much more damage at a much lower cost.

Edited 53 minutes ago by Jirh

[Jayson G]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Even if terrorism is warranted, it still cannot be allowed. That is what makes terrorism a dead end.

It doesn't matter if you have a just cause, as soon as you start doing terrorism, you've lost all moral ground.

Netanyahu understands this, and he uses it against the Arabs.

No matter how bad Israel acts, it's still not as bad as hijacking an airplane.

@Leo Gura how is hijacking a plane worse than what all israel has done? Ive seen the real footage of gaza and I dont think Ive ever seen anything more horrific in my life. 

And even on a strategic level, tons of western countries are speaking up against Israel now. I think the UN even has a warrant for him. 

[oOo]

15 minutes ago, Jirh said:

7 October is not some event that happened in a vacuum. Israel has been killing Gazans and Palestinians for decades before 2023. Gaza was already blockaded when the attack happened, it was daily raided and civilians and children were daily killed. But you don't hear about it as often because Arab lives don't matter to western media. Death is the norm for Gazans.

You hear about the plane hijack. It floods your news feed because it's an anomaly in stable Israeli life.

Which dated source establishes daily civilian killings in Gaza before October 7, 2023?

What evidence distinguishes unequal coverage from your conclusion that Arab lives don’t matter to Western media?

What criteria support “infinitely worse than Hitler,” and what evidence would change your assessment?

Your point that Palestinian suffering predates October 7 is valid, I gotcha there. My point though was that Hamas triggered this particular war. Those statements can both be true, and historical context does not remove responsibility for deliberately attacking civilians, moreover I was not saying that Israel’s security needs do not excuse unlawful retaliation either. Recognising Palestinian suffering strengthens your argument but ignoring other facts doesn't @Jirh. Overstating frequencies, presuming motives and invoking Hitler without a defensible comparison weakens it... Considerably.

We should consistently apply the same evidentiary standards to everyone, including ourselves, especially on a topic as serious as this one where propaganda can do enormous damage and has real world consequences.