Being authentic as a neurodivergent person can be unattractive to others and oneself

[YIDIRYIDIR]

1 hour ago, Ima Freeman said:

Let me ask it this way, cause I was kinda sloppy with my original question.

How to deal with the phenomenon, that most people are weirded out or outright dismissive about oneself, because  one is neurologically atypical?

Get alot of rejection in workplaces, socializing, etc. The ego wants to be accepted by its surroundings to feel safe Distrustful, weirded out looks, rejection, outright hostility is what I see often. I guess I communicate similar messages involuntary, because of being overstrained.

I got my handful of divergent friends btw, but I have to deal with workplace, education, social situations, society by and large.

By owning everything about yourself. when you accept yourself,(it's a skill, that requires practice and inner work) to a point where you can authentically express yourself with confidence and without any caution or performance (aka detachment from external judgment and having courage to risk rejection) you actually get less rejection, because people embrace and respect you more, because it shows in how you carry yourself. (watch the streamer sketch for example) 

and watch this video, and notice how the more the guy speaks, the more attractive he becomes, because of how he carries himself. (read the comments as well) 

 

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Being authentic creates haters regardless. That's why most people are fake.

If you are authenticaly hateful* and in denial, and thus projecting onto other people who are "attracted."

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

If you are authenticaly hateful* and in denial, and thus projecting onto other people who are "attracted."

I don't hate anyone, but I got haters.

Haters don't care how pure you are.

Edited 11 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Schizophonia]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't hate anyone, but I got haters.

Haters don't care how pure you are.

If you are moving closer to purity why aren't you the Mormon type with eight kids, memberships in a gardening club and a charity, and a permanent, ear-to-ear Colgate smile

There is a dose of hatred in your persona, things that aren't love in general, other things, and this manifests itself through other people.

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

If you are moving closer to purity why aren't you the Mormon type with eight kids, memberships in a gardening club and a charity, and a permanent, ear-to-ear Colgate smile

There is a dose of hatred in your persona, things that aren't love in general, other things, and this manifests itself through other people.

I do have a general contempt for mankind, but this is fully warranted since mankind is ignorant, toxic, and unteachable. But I don't hate individuals. I don't even hate Trump.

Why didn't Jesus fit your Mormon stereotype?

Why did Jesus have haters?

Relative to a Mormon I am as pure as fresh snow. Just thinking about Mormons pollutes my mind.

Edited 10 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Olaf]

I think there are actually some mental illnesses that might even increase your attraction. My friend from high school was bipolar and it wasn't until he became bipolar and had episodes that he started getting girls. He died, I don't want to talk about it here publicly, but some mental illnesses actually can increase attraction, probably because you care less and give less shits. Now this is by no means an advice to become bipolar  but it is interesting to think about.

[Miguel1]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I do have a general contempt for mankind, but this is fully warranted since mankind is ignorant, toxic, and unteachable. But I don't hate individuals. I don't even hate Trump.

Why didn't Jesus fit your Mormon stereotype?

Relative to a Mormon I am as pure as fresh snow. Just thinking about Mormons pollutes my mind.

If I said this in the dating subforum, I would be labelled as a spiritual narcissist 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

I would be labelled as a spiritual narcissist

My haters label me that way, so welcome to the team.

[LordFall]

Mastering social calibration is how you do it. Doing pickup is one of the best way to learn since you're putting yourself in one of the highest friction mode of interactions possible, approaching a woman that you don't know on the sidewalk. Teaches you building rapport quickly and also little things like body language and facial expressions. There is a good argument that pickup should be practiced even without the goal of romantic intent because it's such a powerful social skills training mechanism. I was a shy introvert before and now often times people don't believe me when I say I'm an introvert because I host events with 20-50 people but I do that like one every once in a while and the rest of the time I mostly chill at home.

Other great avenues to practice social calibration are getting a sales job or working in customer service/retail/restaurants. All of these avenues gives you both high number of social encounters to learn from with little stakes in terms of messing them up at first. There's so many great videos on Youtube that'll teach you advanced social calibration to the point that you can end up understanding social dynamics way better than neurotypicals. 

There is a camp that would call social skills training the opposite of authenticity but I disagree. It lets you gain intentionality over your behaviour, how you come across and  your relationship with others. That would be like saying learning to walk or to speak a language is a lack of authenticity because it's not our natural states. 

Edited 10 hours ago by LordFall

[Schizophonia]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I do have a general contempt for mankind, but this is fully warranted since mankind is ignorant, toxic, and unteachable.

Why your cerebral cortex was led to form this conclusion: because you are hateful, want to feel superior etc.

If that weren't the case, you would have arranged your life in such a way that the idea of bringing that up wouldn't even cross your mind, because the time or energy to symbolize this idea wouldn't be there.

To take another example for the sake of clarity: someone involved in politics who is frequently angry tells themselves that they want peace, but are forced to be unpeaceful due to the material circumstances.
Yet that is merely a relative, ego-driven truth. The absolute truth is that they enjoy being angry; playing the role of the angry person over some global issue that disrupts peace; and that if they truly wanted peace, they would never have entered politics in the first place, or would have gone about it in a completely different way.

The ego's lie (by extension, the illusion of separation; from a non-dualist perspective): "I want peace, but I am forced to be angry for the time being."

The truth: "I want to play at being angry, using an objective problem as a pretext; otherwise, I would be doing something else as is already the case for most people on Earth."

Once you grasp that you realize that people actually betray themselves every time they open their mouths.

The guy who sees gay people everywhere and talks about gay people is probably gay himself. The guy who says girls love scumbags gives off scumbag energy, the guy who sees violence is violent, the guy who sees stupidity is stupid, the guy who sees stinginess is a cheapskate/someone who actually would lowkey like to take advantage of others and so on.

That’s why I’m increasingly trying not to be offensive, because it’s becoming more and more obvious that I want to click on a topic because it actually concerns me, and talk about someone because I’m projecting something onto them.

I say it often and I’ll say it again; it’s exactly what I’m doing right now. I could be doing anything, "buying a toaster" like Peter Ralston sais to you lol, I remember that and yet here I am writing all this to you, because I am projecting my "egoic hypocrisy" i described onto you.

The day I truly move past this, the day I’ve genuinely shifted into love, I’ll go about doing things and I simply won’t need you as a mirror anymore.

Not necessarily Leo in general but the Leo who says that.

Edited 10 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Olaf]

@Leo Gura the only spiritual narcissist on this forum is Natasha, kidding

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

the guy who sees stupidity is stupid

This sounds nice, but it's just not true.

You can genuinely see the stupidity of mankind. The smarter you get the more you will see it.

An intelligent person cannot look at a MAGA rally voter and not be appalled by the stupidity of those people.

I see the stupidity of mankind so clearly that I hurts my soul. I hope one day all of you reach that level.

But you are right that this can be taken too far. Be careful with misanthropy, it is a seductive poison chalice.

Edited 10 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Schizophonia]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

An intelligent person cannot look at a MAGA rally voter and not be appalled by the stupidity of those people.

No because if you are intelligent you will project intelligence. You will see that they vote for Trump because it aligns with their interests given their social standing, their integration into a collective identity, and their general environmental conditions. Simply put they have lived through experiences that shaped their brain plasticity, or they are the heirs to a specific genetic lineage, such that voting for Trump becomes the logical choice based on the signals they receive from him (program, behaviour, vibe...)

But if you don't put enough intelligence here you won't perceive all those underlying signifiers; instead it is precisely that stupidity which will serve as the signifier itself.

Everything is projection; what fills the gap of representation as Lacan might put it,  what enables the transition from the symbolic to representation is the self, and thus in reality the phallus; In other words to put it very simply our sense of power in relation to the environment and the social body.

Viewing things from this perspective is not only limiting but also as Karl Marx might put it an expression of bourgeois morality. In other words because you didn't had to expecience some thing that Trumpists did, because of the differences in social conditions (one is not obliged to structure the psyche around specific, very symbolizable events; it is highly fluid and even transgenerational hence the idea of schizoanalysis and by extension opposition to oeudipus complexe in Deleuze and Guattari for example.) you dismiss the personas of people who needed and continue to need more violence, brutality,or something you project into them that is actually lowkey necessary to them given their social position.

I am not saying we need to become like the Trumpist, that being Trumpist is good, nor am I saying we need to become like policed democrates ourselves; I do not believe there is any specific place to aim for other than perhaps the shifts in mindset driven by the evolution of new technologies, that the ego generally craves.

The core of my argument is that: 1) every judgment, mental representation is projective in nature.

2) this projection stems from social relations and a desire, conscious or otherwise, to carve out a place for oneself. Therefore if a democrat truly wants what is best for the people, they must discard the notion of stupidity and other such condescending ideas in order to grasp the intelligence underlying Trumpism. Everything is a matter of intelligence and adaptation; there are only different points of view.

Social relations in the United States are currently characterized by a distinct paranoia featuring a "submissive," self-policing axis (most visible among polite, gay Democrats who use the word "problematic") and a brutal, "stupid" polarity that is more apparent among the collective groups drawn to Trump.
In reality, the underlying mental structures are the same; stemming as they do from the same society and its collective groups, yet the symbolic positioning (identification versus projection) differs shaped by the varying power dynamics between the collective groups to which the individual belongs.

[Ulax]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This sounds nice, but it's just not true.

You can genuinely see the stupidity of mankind. The smarter you get the more you will see it.

An intelligent person cannot look at a MAGA rally voter and not be appalled by the stupidity of those people.

I find them funny

[LordFall]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

No because if you are intelligent you will project intelligence. You will see that they vote for Trump because it aligns with their interests given their social standing, their integration into a collective identity, and their general environmental conditions. Simply put they have lived through experiences that shaped their brain plasticity, or they are the heirs to a specific genetic lineage, such that voting for Trump becomes the logical choice based on the signals they receive from him (program, behaviour, vibe...)

The core of my argument is that: 1) every judgment, mental representation is projective in nature.

2) this projection stems from social relations and a desire, conscious or otherwise, to carve out a place for oneself. Therefore if a democrat truly wants what is best for the people, they must discard the notion of stupidity and other such condescending ideas in order to grasp the intelligence underlying Trumpism. Everything is a matter of intelligence and adaptation; there are only different points of view.

You're making one HUGE leap of assumption here that every human is rational. A lot of people vote against their own self-interest and literally in the past 10 years plenty have died because of voting for Trump and then him cutting their medical funding. 

Plenty of people can be manipulated to act against their own best self-interest or are actually so stupid that they don't even act in their own best interest in the first place. 

You're making the Stage Green mistake of invalidating objective hierarchies.

Plenty of people objectively are terrible at learning things and they cannot deal with new and difficult situations. If you wanna add to it problem solving as an intelligent person should be able to solve their life's problems; you can add to the definition of stupidity creating problems for yourself and others.

Edited 4 hours ago by LordFall

[Schizophonia]

@LordFall Everything you say is based on an inability to put yourself in others' shoes and their priorities.

In this context at least. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Schizophonia

[LordFall]

46 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

@LordFall Everything you say is based on an inability to put yourself in others' shoes and their priorities.

In this context at least. 

 

That misses the point entirely. The ability to understand someone's internal rationalization doesn't change whether the outcome is functional or destructive.

People construct logical narratives for self-sabotaging behavior all the time. Empathy lets you map their reasoning; discernment lets you recognize when that reasoning leads to an objective dead end.

Edited 3 hours ago by LordFall

[eos_nyxia]

7 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

If you are moving closer to purity why aren't you the Mormon type with eight kids, memberships in a gardening club and a charity, and a permanent, ear-to-ear Colgate smile

But so many of those boys are FILTHY MINDED because of repression. 

Edited 3 hours ago by eos_nyxia

[eos_nyxia]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

The core of my argument is that: 1) every judgment, mental representation is projective in nature.

The point you're making is very important, especially when it comes to the quality of our emotional experience, and also directly shapes the lens with which we look at the world and how we see other beings/ ourselves/ things, which is very much directly under our control. (Or at least, it ought to be.)  It's exalting the hyper-fixating, piercing, dividing qualities associated with "the mind" (which is what judgement is) whether you are directly intending to do or so or not, and then living with the consequences emotionally, in your body, socially, etc..

It's one of the traps of being attached to the identity of being a highly conceptual or "heady" person, or really going out of your way to self-identify as intelligent (and a huge reason why I don't even bother with this myself if I can help it). You have to look around to find people stupid because you as "intelligent" cannot exist in relation to others if you can't define the stupid. So if you're defining the stupid "outside" you, then you are in turn defining your own constructed identity of being intelligent and then strengthening and ossifying it. It's also playing a bit of a social totem pole game in your own head as well. Chinese thought of the Daoist flavour talks about this a lot but in somewhat different terms as yours. 

It's not that they are stupid or not stupid, it's the judgement itself and what it does to you. Judgement, rigidness, and attachment to being right (and attachment to who/ what is wrong). In Daoist thought (and TCM, as flawed as it might be in modern terminology), rigidity leads to ossification, and inertness is death because vital energy cannot flow through it. It is a resistance to the "yin" quality of life. (And then unsurprisingly, that "yin" quality must be compensated for in other ways, whether it's going through women like you're binging on junk food, or relying on specific drugs to relax you and make you receptive, etc. etc.). Inevitably it's a resistance to openness as well, because there is a psychologically decimating quality to real openness. 

What motivates this? Almost always fear of loss, a need for control, or not being able or not wanting to move on from whoever and whatever you are at that moment, whatever the other reasons might be. 

By extension, you miss out whatever freedom you would have if you didn't care so much about either being or looking stupid. (While risk mitigation has its benefits, and while judgement has value in its proper place, this isn't what this is about.) It's the Daoist quality of being "artless" and pure which is considered to be the highest of qualities, and how to move through this world without weight and with joy. 

A complementary concept which goes along with this:

Quote

If you believe in light, it's because of obscurity
If you believe in joy, it's because of sadness 
And if you believe in God, it's because of the devil

Belief being the key word.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by eos_nyxia

[eos_nyxia]

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I say it often and I’ll say it again; it’s exactly what I’m doing right now. I could be doing anything, "buying a toaster" like Peter Ralston sais to you lol, I remember that and yet here I am writing all this to you, because I am projecting my "egoic hypocrisy" i described onto you.

I have actually noticed this! (For a while, I was lurking more than posting, haha.)

I'm also trying to be less judgemental, as in, being mindful of going around with a critical eye pre-emptively, being mindful of WHY I'm being judgemental (and what purpose it is actually serving), etc. Or alternatively, to practice judgement (or good judgement/ discernment) without BEING judgemental.

The emotional charge which compromises your intention for doing a thing; it functions as a sort of engine -- it is king.