What red pill books are actually good?

[AION]

I was reading rational male by Rollo and I never read it and I was pleasantly surprised. Almost no toxicity. And terms are explained very clearly.

[LordFall]

Yeah I read The Rational Male, its pretty good. He has 4 more in the series but haven't read those.

You should read the game and the follow up The Truth by Neil Strauss, that dude is a gifted writer.

Robert Greene books are also phenomenal. I've read 48 laws of power, mastery and now reading laws of huaman nature. He has the art of seduction as well, haven't read it yet I really want to.

The manipulated man by Esther Vilar is get in terms of anthropology and sociology; it studies how men are oftentimes exploited by both society and women to do labor without credit. 

The red queen by Matt Ridley is good for evolutionary psychology

Other good mentions are No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover and The Way of The Superior Man by David Deida.

I assume by red pill you mean books that will get to the core of the human dating experience and especially dating from the male perspective, with those books you'll have a pretty good foundation of knowledge to build off of. 

[PsychedelicEagle]

The work of Alan Roger Currie is great. Not sure if red pill strictly.

[Leo Gura]

Red Pill is too stupid to read books about it. 

Hehe.

[PsychedelicEagle]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Red Pill is too stupid to read books about it. 

One could read it with the goal of understanding psychological patterns or stages of ego development.

The risk would be getting convinced in the middle of it and becoming a misogynist.

Yea... Maybe not worth the risk 😂

Edited 5 hours ago by PsychedelicEagle

[LordFall]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Red Pill is too stupid to read books about it. 

Hehe.

The red pill movement and content was started on forums like SoSuave and the red pill subreddit. I'm not familiar with sosuave but the subreddit had a lot of great stuff that I read for years. 

There is a lot of truth to the concept of the medium is the message. When people had to write in depth forum posts about their ideas some of them were well thought out and quite genius.

Turning it into videos and especially with the viral algorithm that we are under it allowed for the stupidest and most extreme takes to take a hold as opposed to the best quality content. So now we get clavicular bone smashing instead of actual dating strategy.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

One could read it with the goal of understanding psychological patterns or stages of ego development.

That is way too intelligent of a thing for a Red Piller do be doing. 

[UpperMaster]

4 hours ago, LordFall said:

Yeah I read The Rational Male, its pretty good. He has 4 more in the series but haven't read those.

You should read the game and the follow up The Truth by Neil Strauss, that dude is a gifted writer.

Robert Greene books are also phenomenal. I've read 48 laws of power, mastery and now reading laws of huaman nature. He has the art of seduction as well, haven't read it yet I really want to.

The manipulated man by Esther Vilar is get in terms of anthropology and sociology; it studies how men are oftentimes exploited by both society and women to do labor without credit. 

The red queen by Matt Ridley is good for evolutionary psychology

Other good mentions are No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover and The Way of The Superior Man by David Deida.

I assume by red pill you mean books that will get to the core of the human dating experience and especially dating from the male perspective, with those books you'll have a pretty good foundation of knowledge to build off of. 

How do you know if any of the evolutionary psychology things you read is even true? 

I remember watching a video debunking popular evo psych claims made by popular academics (a lot of which has to do with women and dating).

 

 

[LordFall]

3 minutes ago, UpperMaster said:

How do you know if any of the evolutionary psychology things you read is even true? 

I remember watching a video debunking popular evo psych claims made by popular academics (a lot of which has to do with women and dating).

 

 

What do you mean by true? Like reflects accurate trends in the real world? Or studies made using proper methodology? Some studies are manipulated to fit an agenda but you can look most of them up for free online and double check them yourself for accuracy. 

Usually one of the main blunders people make is confusing correlation for causation but there are other cognitive biases that shapes people's views. 

Edited 3 hours ago by LordFall

[Leo Gura]

Rationalists love to rationalize all their biases with evo psych.

[UpperMaster]

28 minutes ago, LordFall said:

What do you mean by true? Like reflects accurate trends in the real world? Or studies made using proper methodology? Some studies are manipulated to fit an agenda but you can look most of them up for free online and double check them yourself for accuracy. 

Usually one of the main blunders people make is confusing correlation for causation but there are other cognitive biases that shapes people's views. 

I would be lying if I said that I did a deep search into the truth when it comes to evo science dating claims, but the video I shared covers many of the popular claims made by red pill. I remember watching it and being genuinely surprised by how ridiculous some claims are. In the video the youtuber covers studies ofc. 

Its a long video, but if you do watch it, let me know generally how you feel. I don't even want to have a big debate on this, I am just generally curious on whether theres anything she says that you strongly disagree with and why.

Maybe this video on debunking the manosphere.

Also books like the manipulated man (which I haven't fully read but I've read the summary), like I am sure many women in the past have weaponized their position in the relationship and extracted value, but to make the assertion that women had the upper hand in the relationship to me seems insane considering intermarital rape, domestic abuse among other things. At some point women couldn't even go to the hospital without a man. 

Obviously men suffered aswell, like yes men did more dangerous jobs and went to war but women did too. Raising 3 children is NOT easy, house work is NOT easy, especially in the past when we didn't have the machines of today. Its not like they were js sitting around. I asked my grand-mother about her experience back in the day, and man she barley had a choice in anything, especially in early life. 

Edited 2 hours ago by UpperMaster

[UpperMaster]

I can be wrong but I want to voice my opinion on this. Generally speaking I don't understand or can't even imagine red-pillers even being massively successful with women. Like RSD people have a pretty okay rep on this forum for PUA skills, but I remember watching a course years agp and Julien was trying to get a girl home and so just started asking her several times to just bounce with him somewhere even when she didn't seem interested. Like that just doesn't seem like game.

Edited 2 hours ago by UpperMaster

[LordFall]

@UpperMaster Feel free to bring up some exact points and we can debate them, I don't like watching random videos.

I think in general most red pillers tend to regurgitate very vague claims like "women with high body counts are bad!" and "become an alpha male or it's over for you!" Those points end up becoming more like talking points that shape their debates vs actual truths based on data. 

I think the alpha male claim is the one I most strongly believe in but that can mean so many things. They turn it into if you don't have $1,000,000+ net worth and aren't 6'4 and above you will never meet a woman in your entire life but that's obviously not true.

I believe in increasing the value that you provide to women and the world as a whole; I think that overall leads to the best life possible as a human. There are many ways to twist that axiom though and if you just want a basic everyday relationship you certainly don't need to become superman to get into one. To have a very high quality relationship with particularly in demand women though you start to need to rank higher in the male tier list. 

Vilar's point was more to highlight the ways that men are getting the short end of the stick. Not that men have it worse overall, but rather that mainstream narratives always cast them as default villains. Her work highlights the overlooked half of that social contract.

Game definitely works, sometimes it's overhyped as the holy grail of all human dating dynamics but it's only one part of it on top of having your life together and understanding psychology enough to be able to screen your potential partners. 

Edited 2 hours ago by LordFall

[Raze]

1 hour ago, UpperMaster said:

How do you know if any of the evolutionary psychology things you read is even true? 

I remember watching a video debunking popular evo psych claims made by popular academics (a lot of which has to do with women and dating).

 

That’s not an accurate video. This guy made a response explaining how her claims were false, he’s also extremely anti-redpill and anti-manosphere so he’s not against her feminist slant by itself:

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Raze

[LordFall]

@Raze Good find seems like a high quality rebuttal. I don't have time to watch it either but when I ran both videos through Gemini here is what it said 

I'm more of a fan of discussing practical strategy to get good results in our lives in the short and medium term than discussing other people's thoughts. I've studied red pill frameworks and found them worthwhile. I've studied feminist literature like the book on Leo's book list and read through the female dating strategies subreddit when it was active and also read the sugar dating subreddit and all of it gave me some useful insights.

Overall it's all about finding ways that are particularly powerful to get your wants and needs met. In terms of dating from the male perspective I've found that studying photography for online dating, learning social circle game to throw events and personal branding have given me the biggest upside.

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall