Stop letting woman use you

[LordFall]

@Olaf That’s the entire paradox right there.

You want to act dominant, but only in low-stakes everyday scenarios with vanilla girls by saying "no" to carrying a bag or picking a restaurant. The second actual female submission and kink show up, you get repelled. It’s not dominance you're looking for, it's just a low-risk way to manage your own anxiety. Real polarity requires being able to handle and match female sexuality without flinching.

Women are usually way kinkier than men, they have a deeper pool of emotions to fantasize with. 

Edited yesterday at 05:12 AM by LordFall

[Olaf]

@Ulax its a sad day for the bdsm girl homies lol

[Olaf]

@LordFall relax, I have my own type of woman I fall for, everyone has their type I don't judge

[LordFall]

I'm not responding to your type of woman, more to the psychology you're displaying with the original post and how you're falling prey to surface-level behaviours vs deep character that shows up as a result of a developed identity built from actually dominating your life. 

Edited yesterday at 05:17 AM by LordFall

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

What's missing is instead of analysing the dynamics, one should be focusing on relating to the other person.

Relational understanding is more conducive to "frame control" or "leadership". When someone feels truly seen, understood and known - they become remarkably receptive and open to alternative frames, perspectives and opinions. 

Women are particularly sensitive to being analysed and seen through a "frame" which often endeavours to explain her instead of understand.

At work, I don't try to control subcontractors through any sort of frame or understanding. I relate to their experience, their troubles & I negotiate a solution that ties into their meaning. As soon as they feel seen, they feel validated. They will follow my lead. 

Psychoanalysis or logically trying to understand them never rallies or incentivizes them to work 5 hour of O/T like connection though relational understanding does.

100%

The main problem-dynamics that I see on this section of the forum tend to come from trying to analyze women rather than understand the individual woman as a person.

And this analysis tends to come mostly from fear and trying to get a very specific validating outcome by gaining more knowledge. That way, there's the ability to control for maximum emotional protection.

Contrast that with a man who feels comfortable with himself, detached from outcomes, and truly present with the reality and not his logical understanding of what a man 'should' do.... and the difference is night and day.

The man this describes will come across with much more safe, stable, and centered energy. And this level of maturity allows a woman to relax more.

And this is where the subtle Masculine/Feminine attraction polarities that are being aimed at can actually play out.

This is all very subtle, of course.

It whispers... and it doesn't shout. And it doesn't fit neatly in boxes.

But it's difficult to understand what "leadership" means when it's subtle and understated.

And it's perhaps difficult for heterosexual men to recognize what makes men come across as an attractive man who can be safely relied upon and trusted with leadership.

So, there's a tendency to gild the lily of Masculinity... like putting a hat on a hat. 

Instead, it's better to simply become centered and grounded in one's self, such that the opinions of other people don't sway their opinions of themselves.

And with that, the analysis projection and tactics can drop away... and a real connection can be established.

[Ulax]

8 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@Olaf That’s the entire paradox right there.

You want to act dominant, but only in low-stakes everyday scenarios with vanilla girls by saying "no" to carrying a bag or picking a restaurant. The second actual female submission and kink show up, you get repelled. It’s not dominance you're looking for, it's just a low-risk way to manage your own anxiety. Real polarity requires being able to handle and match female sexuality without flinching.

Women are usually way kinkier than men, they have a deeper pool of emotions to fantasize with. 

False equivalency

[Ulax]

9 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Ulax its a sad day for the bdsm girl homies lol

hahaha

[LordFall]

2 minutes ago, Ulax said:

False equivalency

Not at all. How so? 

[Ulax]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Instead, it's better to simply become centered and grounded in one's self, such that the opinions of other people don't sway their opinions of themselves.

And with that, the analysis projection and tactics can drop away... and a real connection can be established.

This is a fairytale

[Emerald]

16 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@oOo interested in what in particular reads as "try hard" from Emerald? 

I feel like that could just as easily be applied to me, really 😅😅😅

I think he perceived me to be insulting the OP, by saying the tactic in the original post came across as 'try-hard'.

So, he was just giving the same insult back because he got defensive.

[Emerald]

Just now, Ulax said:

This is a fairytale

It's a fairy-tale for you to be grounded and centered in your own authenticity... and to drop tactics?

[Ulax]

Just now, LordFall said:

Not at all. How so? 

Being the leader and being sexually aroused by bdsm girls do not necessarily come together

[Ulax]

8 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's a fairy-tale for you to be grounded and centered in your own authenticity... and to drop tactics?

Its a fairytale that that is better

[Olaf]

@Emerald tactics are temporary guidances until they are internalised and can be dropped. Authentically being yourself isn't always the solution, it is a mix of authenticity and being relatable. I remember being my authentic self for the first time in the club a few years ago and got so much attention and people being drawn to me, but also I was saying some really unrelatable and potentially unintended offending them, alienating people. So a balance is needed, both with tactics, being relatable and then dropping it all and being authentic.

Edited yesterday at 05:39 AM by Olaf

[LordFall]

18 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Being the leader and being sexually aroused by bdsm girls do not necessarily come together

It's not about whether a guy personally wants to engage in BDSM; it's about the contrast between performative resistance and actual leadership.

Getting your way when deciding where to eat is not leadership. Leadership is leading the way in uncomfortable and dangerous situations. When your girl loses her job and has to decide to move back with her parents or trust you to take care of her life is leadership. When you have to decide how to allocate your finances to not get ruined in uncertain times, that's leadership. Uncomfortable sexual scenarios tend to mirror that.

Women want a man that's actually gonna have their back when shit goes wrong. Not a dude that tells them no to prove to himself that he has a backbone.

Edited yesterday at 05:43 AM by LordFall

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

But also, to learn what you did most likely also meant you DIDN'T prematurely close in on a frame and become locked. I don't know how you experience Ni, but for me it is really tacit. I have no fucken idea how I come to the conclusions or knowings I have - and I continually have to reverse engineer from the conclusion explicitly to understand (and I've been burned by my tacit conclusions often enough now I make a really concerted effort to never simply roll with my 'Knowings"). So often I am taken aback by conversations based on game, PUA, frame etc 

Yes, that's how I've always experienced Ni too. As a kid, I was really odd because I was in constant observer mode, like just trying to soak up data to understand everything that was going on around me. I remember going to school and being a loner and didn't even care and wasn't bothered by it in the slightest because observer mode was too dominant. And the key thing about that mode was that it wasn't trying to close because it wasn't even close to being able to make sense of the world. It was like that until about mid 20s. Mid 20s, all the data started to crystallize and I realized over and over where the intuitions from all the observations started to be right, and where they were wrong. And when they were wrong, I had to know why, like a compulsion. So basically, whatever this cognitive architecture I have is, it was just training the shit out intuition and it had built-in correction mechanisms that were fine-tuning it. Ni proposes, Te disposes. Eventually, my intuitions became so mystical to me that it was like "how tf do I know this?" And for me, Te is really strong, so I would put in the work to understand how I knew - untangling the Ni. After years of untangling the Ni, things got even more mystical because the system just kept proving things that I myself wasn't actually working to produce, or at least, it didn't seem like it other than the Te. Once I gained competence in unpacking Ni, that's when I started closing more. The craziest thing is when you're highly metacognitive AND have Ni AND can competently unpack Ni. That's a strange default mode to live in. 

And the thing is, I'm aware where there are holes. I can sense it, but that doesn't stop me from trying to fill them in. And part of the process of filling them in is to actually make guesses and be wrong. And when I'm wrong, it registers like a serious violation to my system, which ups the stakes.

And I'm guessing being wrong registers like a serious violation to you too, which is why you're so vigilant about avoiding it? I've intuited that before, which is why I wrote you, basically a letter once lol, explaining why it's ok to be wrong and the utility of it, and that you should open yourself up to it more. I've considered that maybe you aren't as Te heavy, thus not as likely to unpack your Ni...maybe? I believe we spoke before about how Te is likely different/weaker for a woman.

Also, if you knew me in real life, you would see how careful I am with closing on things. Here on the forum, I have time to think and unpack the Ni, but it's not like that in real life. I mean, I still have sharp intuition, but it arrives as a knowing without a chain of evidence, which sucks, lol.

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Explicit frames being learned and applied, to me, seem so alien... but I see the use. And I have come to use these methods as an alternative to my straight Ni. I am almost trying to break my Ni at this time in my life, if that makes sense. to "get out' of it, because it is so much of my processing I cannot make it out clearly. I cannot see my eyes.

Yeah, same here. It's disposition. I used to want to embody other modes of being, but then when I thought about it and tried it, was like fuck that. There's no escape from you Ni, sorry, lol. Try to immerse yourself in Si, the function furthest from you, and see what kind of hell you create for yourself, lol. 

Edited yesterday at 05:57 AM by Joshe

[Natasha Tori Maru]

20 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Emerald tactics are temporary guidances until they are internalised and can be dropped. Authentically being yourself isn't always the solution, it is a mix of authenticity and being relatable. I remember being my authentic self for the first time in the club a few years ago and got so much attention and people being drawn to me, but also I was saying some really unrelatable and potentially unintended offending them, alienating people. So a balance is needed, both with tactics, being relatable and then dropping it all and being authentic.

This passage is interesting to me. 

If expressing yourself in this way is "authentic" expression, but it causes offense and runs up against a value (in this case harmony, unintended alienation) was it really authentic expression? 

If our authenticity is violating a value, it seems to me something may NOT be authentic and expressed as truth. Maybe it points to something unintegrated that is yet to be revealed (IE on our unconscious awareness). And once we find that truth within us, connect to it, our authentic expression won't contradict one of our values. 

Authenticy is a complex topic - and it relates to values. When we feel like expression is totally in the moment we often label it as authentic - but is it really if it runs up against a core value?

Edited yesterday at 05:59 AM by Natasha Tori Maru

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Joshe remarkable how similar the growth process you describe is, to my own. Jesus. 

I think I am heavy Te - but it's all expressed in construction and my work. I tend to flirt with it less so in cognitive realms like philosophy, metaphysics or forum dialogue. It may not be manifesting here because it is spent in real life? But also, I am a woman, and socialised to prioritise feelings and group cohesion. So I have had certain other functions beaten in to me, so to speak. 

I don't mind being wrong really. But for me, the stupid Ni can shift frames to mean so many things can be looked at as right/wrong! Not all. The forum is low stakes, so being wrong here is okay.

Being wrong on my takeoff for a hebel cladding estimate could fold my business though.... So it's fair to say that risk assessment may be happening subconsciously. Lucky I am decisive as fuck. Which is also why I am okay being wrong too - I make decisions based on what limited information I have. If it's wrong I am all good taking responsibility. 

If you are anything like me with emotions though, sometimes I just get charged up and dig my heels in. Which is out of alignment to my normal rational self. Which is all humans really 😁 and also why I try to not explain someone's psychology or pathologise them with my elaborate internal mechanistic explanations. Maybe they were just having a bad day! 

Maybe I should try break my Ni with Si for a bit, instead of going meta meta into recursive nightmares (which is incidentally why I think you and I zoom all over the shop with conversation, it's in an infinite recursion happening in real time). 

Enjoyed the chats I think I understand you better, rather than just explain behaviour ⚡

[Joshe]

19 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Being wrong on my takeoff for a hebel cladding estimate could fold my business though.... 

Yeah, I don't rely on Ni with work. Too risky. Except it did pop into it the other day when a client was trying to bullshit me that my latest deliverable had a problem I had already solved and verified wasn't a problem anymore. And because they misinterpreted something, they kept insisting there was a problem and I told them to reverify and they told me they did and the problem was still there, so I asked for a screenshot to confirm and they refused. I struggle to keep my Ni out of situations like that. It's like "I KNOW you're full of shit", lol. I have been wrong in one of those situations before, so I'm careful not to imply I think they're full of it. But yeah, that's a lesson I had to learn: Ni doesn't belong in my work. Some day, I hope to move into a line of work that requires it. 

Past my bedtime. I enjoyed it as well, and my Te did update my model of you in a more positive light tonight, so that's good! 

[KosmicGeng]

7 hours ago, Olaf said:

what crazy people are haunting you? hehe sounds like you have an ex stalking you

When I was jacked a.f I had silent stalkers in these modern/zalando type clothings with coats following me in the supermarket, I was training to go for a small ultra 5k swimming, 10k running, 20k+ biking, I cared less for biking, as I could bike forever and just trained endurance swimming on the weekend and 1h+ cardio during the week, once or twice doing athlean x training it was brutal what I did.

I looked so masculine and I generally have masculine features, I get these "save me request" at times from women, and I only sleept with two girls in total, they project so much b.s even of "God-Likeness" when you meditate which I did also at least 30 mins per day during that time, coming from a 1h practice with home retreats on the weekend meditating 8h+ depending on how I could endure it, I still had some issues facing death and depression of people around me, but had a lot of support from fellow gym members, athletes and the attention of healthy and succesful women, that also workout, and not simple "care for body" but actually had a value of health similar to mine felt good, they cared about a level of athleticness in order to be healthy and a healthy member and leader of society at that, for e.g one women in my study program I saw her often in the gym, and that was quite inspiring, as I pushed beyond 150kg+-200kg+ squats, training also mostly with my own bodyweight, but mostly with apps, as we did not have any fitness trainers, and I bought different types of programs.

To move on to the stalker point, even when I stopped training and I am in online rooms studying for exams, as it helped me with accountability I had women send me messages of "Oh my god your jawline etc." even men and I thought these compliments are nice, but I actually yearn to study, and I'd rather game with a friend play leauge of legends or some other fun game for 30 minutes, instead of engaging in small talk about beauty of a man and my jawline, I had 20-30 LSD experiences under my belt contemplating beauty and deconstructing it, and I don't know it was weird, often modern women, with high cognitive abillity wanting strong masculine features, and a lot of arabic men, just complimenting my masculinity, it was odd I have never seen a white person do that besides in good jest, and to continue to go about ones day and work, and leave it at that, I enjoyed that more then the "save me attention we're now friends" I had one girl wanting me to evaluate her entire A.I & data science portfolio while I was just getting into it, and I thought what is the issue etc? But getting older having had high-status for e.g. last year I almost meet up with a super hot Opera singer from france, and being ethnic myself I don't really see myself ethnic I am half american & half german, and meet other more interesting "remixes" at least that is how Grok A.I calls me I find it funny, but not from a human to be called remix out of context. 

The attention alone can be quite "stalking" I disliked it almost dodging or training as I I would dribble in the super market the attention of women eye-balling your for fecundity unconsciously and reporudctive values, or the whole social gimmickery post-modernists play, the most enjoyable conversations just came from people that we're normal and conscious, say hallo have a nice day and being kind, being naturally charming, and not a lustful endorsed "luciferian" type of soul, what I call it, I still dig into the fun in terms of enjoying lust, but I see more of it's vice now after being in a relationship with a cheater, and that is the last quality I will most likely have, I experience the evolutionary pull, but I never did anything like this, and I saw how betrayl feels like and I don't do onto others what I don't want to be done to me, so I put everything away, but it was partially annoying, as I keep growing I held myself down, as I get so much fucking attention for success it is surreal, it makes me suicidal partially, as I actually care about mastery at time a bit to deeply, and people enjoy it putting me into the spotlight, but I don't enjoy the post-modern versions and vibe era, it's mostly about sex and enjoying life at this point. 

I actually did care about creating a conscious family and to have children, but it was impossible with my standards about health, and what I faced, now I will most likely focus more on career and spirituality and enjoying networking, but don't fall into the trap of this stage yellow-turqouise shadow of endless networking which causes an abortion to self-actualizing needs, and feeding useless events to maintain friendship and networks that are done due, I delete people now fairly quickly, as these patterns keep repeating themselves, I have women yearning to sing while they jump on my d*ck, I presume it's due to the prevalence of my BaZi chart being quite powerful in nature having famous people in the entertainment industry, it creates an odd dynamic, and I charted a lot of people gaining insight into core personalities and archetypes, mostly from people active in the sexual industry, as just taking normies says little about their dirty little bed secrets and at times normies are worse, and have more baggage then one can think of, but yes I had "quite stalkers" or "fan-girls" depending on how succesful I am, I am an absolute outliert by D.N.A and most often have to meet also absolute outliers by D.N.A for e.g my old physics professors in cs for machine learning, a lot of "fake outliers" just push themselves in the limelight, I am very much done with ahrimanic forces and luciferan souls. I look to get away and demanifest these type of people, they don't quite get what light is or white light and need to dance and move I move 2 steps and I get the entire principel, and people want me to make a career out of it, been asked for modeling etc. but it's not a healthy industry, and it's annoying to fit industry standards while I am more set to my own standards and defining my own style.

I am pretty sure she deleted me off Tinder, to not get laid, but I can't expect much from a lunatic women, that got her vagina cut from the son of the police department, I still wonder how that happened, how can you make someone so pissed, he attacks your genitals, I've meet f*ed people and I know my dark side, but I never hurted someone like this, imo women should be more careful with their bodily behaviour at times, especially if they are jealous and this person was deeply jealous while I worked this out of me since I was 18, doing gratitude exercises but I see this ibliss consciousness at times, in women that are heart-centered and devotional, but a lot of impulses stem from envy also, it's odd I changed after contemplating more evolution and having to many "gamer" type friends and not the relationship material friends, most of my close "ex" best friends are married or in a happy relationship, I am completely different with re-married parents etc. the whole dynamic and experience becomes quite complicated as I see 2-3 outdated models, and did some self-actualizing practices, but a lot of it depends also on enviroment, I don't know eventually I just settle for hot & crazy again, or I find someone reasonable that is not in a health/relgious cult it's super annoying, I also pull my friends gf's and match them their desires and prospects not perfectly but according to their needs, but I get so little of it, but then date a larger pool of women it's odd. I disliked going out with players I saw to much abuse that is not very good for me, I can also turn ugly, and I am glad I did not turn full ugly, yet I am more happy I am part of a new family with more educated people, and I can finally enjoy some time with my mother, after she is in a new relationship with someone. 

I can't really expect something conscious of a women, if she is not willingly more open to integral courses and work, but I will just have to date & test more women, having been out with phd's etc. 

There are so many excuses for their behaviour etc. just opening the app one second, "feministic men hot a.f" just to go after post-modern promescuity or to enjoy some yin energy, I can also just dance at home and sing to chris brown or smth, that is gay enough, idk I am more hoping for a miracle, I get enough offers as soon as I do better, I would not care about game, but living in purpose more. 

It will be most likely easier to bag the hottie or the few conscious girls, but it's to much currently, I have to see I've had the strangest of experiences and coincidences, 19 year old spanish babe almost inviting me to family studying medicine etc. it's odd a.f for me,I attract close to everything possible, and there are still patterns and new patterns opening up, I don't even go out also just decent pictures, and they are not even masculine, I even attracted hot russian alternative health practicionars, that was also odd, but I am figuring more out with what I learned psychologically with daoism/bazi influences what type of women fit, as a lot of it depends on conditional happiness in a relationship, and I was already shooting for unconditional happiness etc. 

I am often happier without a relationship,. and I might just buy a dog or smth. else or a cat, anyhow it's no wonder we don't have any conscious families and this christian version of it, imo this liberal grooming from women to men, is just already out of date since the 1960's but women enjoy so much feminine energy, can't repress them, anyhow shameless endless post