Why is freedom from attachment to experience better than being a slave to desire?

[Monster Energy]

I’ve been reflecting deeply on the idea that our true nature is already whole and complete.

I think I understand it intellectually, but I’m trying to understand what it actually means in direct experience.

Here’s an example.

Sometimes I have a strong sexual fantasy, and my mind says:

“You need to masturbate to this fantasy, otherwise you’ll experience a deep sense of loss.”

The fear feels incredibly convincing, almost as if something essential is at stake.

What I’m trying to understand is this.

I’m not trying to get rid of desire. I don’t want to stop feeling lust.

What I want is to stop feeling psychologically dependent on fulfilling it.

Ideally, I’d like to reach a place where:

If I choose to masturbate, that’s okay.

If I choose not to masturbate, that’s equally okay.

Not because both choices produce the exact same experience, but because neither choice determines whether I’m fundamentally whole.

If our true nature is already complete, is the reason fear gradually loses its power that we discover through direct experience that no external experience can actually make us more complete or less complete?

Is psychological suffering created by the belief that “I need this particular experience in order to be okay”?

If that’s true, why does that realization eventually make desire lose its sense of urgency? Why does something that once felt like life or death eventually become just another passing impulse?

I’d love to hear how others understand this, especially those who have had direct nondual insights or awakening experiences.

 

[LordFall]

I would be careful in trying to rid yourself of desire, usually it leads to spiritual bypassing or weird repression.

2 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

Sometimes I have a strong sexual fantasy, and my mind says:

“You need to masturbate to this fantasy, otherwise you’ll experience a deep sense of loss.”

The fear feels incredibly convincing, almost as if something essential is at stake.

The brain loves free dopamine and it builds on anticipation. If you deny it, it will play mind games on you no different than a drug addict. You should reign in the psyche to experience true sovereignty of mind though. To me that means being in control of your urges and desires not a slave to your compulsions. A lot of people in spiritual circles and this forum included use spirituality as cope to excuse lack of real world success and results though. No not the success that society imposes on you but your own ability to reach your own goals. 

Freedom to attachment is the core of the abundance mindset. When you are in abundance you trust yourself that you can create the experiences that you want so your brain is less desperate for it. 

Sex is a harder one to argue but money, power and influence is a better one. Most people have none or very little. When challenged as to why they don't put in effort to building it they will find many excuses, you don't need to be spiritual to make excuses. The spiritual flavor will be about how they are to pure for that or materialism doesn't appeal to them. Often times they will soon after complaining about the world or the economy. If you want to change the world to become high consciousness, you need power and influence my friends. If you master your mind they will serve you greatly in helpind mankind advance forward. 

[Monster Energy]

16 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I would be careful in trying to rid yourself of desire, usually it leads to spiritual bypassing or weird repression.

The brain loves free dopamine and it builds on anticipation. If you deny it, it will play mind games on you no different than a drug addict. You should reign in the psyche to experience true sovereignty of mind though. To me that means being in control of your urges and desires not a slave to your compulsions. A lot of people in spiritual circles and this forum included use spirituality as cope to excuse lack of real world success and results though. No not the success that society imposes on you but your own ability to reach your own goals. 

Freedom to attachment is the core of the abundance mindset. When you are in abundance you trust yourself that you can create the experiences that you want so your brain is less desperate for it. 

Sex is a harder one to argue but money, power and influence is a better one. Most people have none or very little. When challenged as to why they don't put in effort to building it they will find many excuses, you don't need to be spiritual to make excuses. The spiritual flavor will be about how they are to pure for that or materialism doesn't appeal to them. Often times they will soon after complaining about the world or the economy. If you want to change the world to become high consciousness, you need power and influence my friends. If you master your mind they will serve you greatly in helpind mankind advance forward. 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think we might be talking about two different things.

I’m not asking about suppressing desire or developing self-control. I’m also not asking about an abundance mindset or believing I can create more experiences in the future.

What I’m trying to understand is something more fundamental.

If our true nature is already whole and complete, why does that realization eventually make desire lose its sense of urgency?

For example, if my mind says, “You need this experience or you’ll feel a deep sense of loss,” why does that thought eventually stop feeling true?

What is the actual mechanism? Is it because I directly realize that no experience can make me more complete or less complete? Or is it something else?

 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

I would be careful in trying to rid yourself of desire, usually it leads to spiritual bypassing or weird repression.

Definitely.  

[LordFall]

@Monster Energy I mean it’s just scarcity mindset. Some people in less developed countries get killed for some dude to steal their iphone. A person with a regular source of income doesn’t kill someone for a job they save up for a few weeks to go get one. When you embrace abundance you become less desperate and angsty. 

[Hojo]

And if you dont jerk off it come back x10 power. And then if you stave off that it comes back x10 power. Then x10 and I am rolling on the floor and cant function.

[VeganAwake]

The freedom lies in recognizing there isn't a "you" suffering in the first place.

Then whatever happens, just happens, and that which judges these happenings as good or bad ends.

[gettoefl]

On 20/07/2026 at 7:43 AM, Monster Energy said:

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think we might be talking about two different things.

I’m not asking about suppressing desire or developing self-control. I’m also not asking about an abundance mindset or believing I can create more experiences in the future.

What I’m trying to understand is something more fundamental.

If our true nature is already whole and complete, why does that realization eventually make desire lose its sense of urgency?

For example, if my mind says, “You need this experience or you’ll feel a deep sense of loss,” why does that thought eventually stop feeling true?

What is the actual mechanism? Is it because I directly realize that no experience can make me more complete or less complete? Or is it something else?

 

To experience gain or to experience loss is the same. One gains, another loses. One day is gain, another day is loss. The way to gain is to give. To give is to receive. The world cannot make you happy. Yet you can make the world happy. Give. Then your store-house increases and you are made happy. Each person and each moment is you. To give all is to gain all for you do everything to yourself.

[Inliytened1]

On 7/20/2026 at 1:20 AM, Monster Energy said:

I’ve been reflecting deeply on the idea that our true nature is already whole and complete.

I think I understand it intellectually, but I’m trying to understand what it actually means in direct experience.

Here’s an example.

Sometimes I have a strong sexual fantasy, and my mind says:

“You need to masturbate to this fantasy, otherwise you’ll experience a deep sense of loss.”

The fear feels incredibly convincing, almost as if something essential is at stake.

What I’m trying to understand is this.

I’m not trying to get rid of desire. I don’t want to stop feeling lust.

What I want is to stop feeling psychologically dependent on fulfilling it.

Ideally, I’d like to reach a place where:

If I choose to masturbate, that’s okay.

If I choose not to masturbate, that’s equally okay.

Not because both choices produce the exact same experience, but because neither choice determines whether I’m fundamentally whole.

If our true nature is already complete, is the reason fear gradually loses its power that we discover through direct experience that no external experience can actually make us more complete or less complete?

Is psychological suffering created by the belief that “I need this particular experience in order to be okay”?

If that’s true, why does that realization eventually make desire lose its sense of urgency? Why does something that once felt like life or death eventually become just another passing impulse?

I’d love to hear how others understand this, especially those who have had direct nondual insights or awakening experiences.

 

It's quite simple.  If you stopped caring about your attachments you wouldn't need to be alive anymore.  We have to keep this stuff dear to keep in existence. 

But this is excellent. This describes what we are to a tee....

We are fucking savages.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Monster Energy]

22 hours ago, LordFall said:

@Monster Energy I mean it’s just scarcity mindset. Some people in less developed countries get killed for some dude to steal their iphone. A person with a regular source of income doesn’t kill someone for a job they save up for a few weeks to go get one. When you embrace abundance you become less desperate and angsty. 

I agree that scarcity mindset plays a role. But I think my question is a bit deeper than that.

I’m not asking how to become less desperate because I believe I can get the experience again. I’m asking how someone realizes they don’t need the experience in order to be whole in the first place.

In other words, what changes so that the experience is enjoyed if it happens, but no longer feels psychologically necessary?

 

[Monster Energy]

17 hours ago, Hojo said:

And if you dont jerk off it come back x10 power. And then if you stave off that it comes back x10 power. Then x10 and I am rolling on the floor and cant function.

That’s actually what I’m curious about.

I’m not asking whether the urge gets stronger with abstinence. I’m asking why, for some people, it eventually stops feeling psychologically necessary.

 

[Monster Energy]

8 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

The freedom lies in recognizing there isn't a "you" suffering in the first place.

Then whatever happens, just happens, and that which judges these happenings as good or bad ends.

Could you elaborate on that?

From your perspective, what actually changes so that the urge no longer feels psychologically necessary? Is it simply seeing that there was never a separate self lacking anything, or is there something more to it through direct experience?

 

[Monster Energy]

4 hours ago, gettoefl said:

To experience gain or to experience loss is the same. One gains, another loses. One day is gain, another day is loss. The way to gain is to give. To give is to receive. The world cannot make you happy. Yet you can make the world happy. Give. Then your store-house increases and you are made happy. Each person and each moment is you. To give all is to gain all for you do everything to yourself.

I understand what you mean about gain and loss being relative, and that happiness cannot truly come from external things.

But how does this apply to desire? If someone feels like they need a certain experience to feel complete, where does that sense of lack actually come from?

And what changes when someone can still enjoy an experience, but no longer feels like they need it to be okay?

 

[Monster Energy]

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's quite simple.  If you stopped caring about your attachments you wouldn't need to be alive anymore.  We have to keep this stuff dear to keep in existence. 

But this is excellent. This describes what we are to a tee....

We are fucking savages.

 

I’m not talking about becoming some emotionless person who doesn’t care about anything.

I’m more curious about why the mind can take something enjoyable and turn it into something we feel we need. Like why does it go from “this is amazing” to “I can’t be okay without this”?

 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

Those neo-advaitans are mentally ill, they use pseudo-spirituality like therapy and intentionally cause themselves mental illness(dissocation) to run away from their issue, their issue remains though, that's why they spend their time on a forum telling everyone that no one exists.

Exactly. Nothing we can do about it though. 

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Monster Energy said:

I understand what you mean about gain and loss being relative, and that happiness cannot truly come from external things.

But how does this apply to desire? If someone feels like they need a certain experience to feel complete, where does that sense of lack actually come from?

And what changes when someone can still enjoy an experience, but no longer feels like they need it to be okay?

 

Desire and lack are inherent to all in the world; they are inescapable. Accept all that you desire as normal and natural. At the same time accept that you are the dreamer not the dreamed. Your character can do all it wishes and you are unaffected. Keep reminding yourself this until it is the default. This is the awakened state. Now you can do anything and enjoy it yet not be attached. Whether you do it or do not do it, all is perfectly fine. You are beyond all this.

[Monster Energy]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

Desire and lack are inherent to all in the world; they are inescapable. Accept all that you desire as normal and natural. At the same time accept that you are the dreamer not the dreamed. Your character can do all it wishes and you are unaffected. Keep reminding yourself this until it is the default. This is the awakened state. Now you can do anything and enjoy it yet not be attached. Whether you do it or do not do it, all is perfectly fine. You are beyond all this.

That last part is exactly what I’m trying to understand.

What actually changes so that “whether you do it or not, all is perfectly fine” becomes your lived experience instead of just an idea?

 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

That last part is exactly what I’m trying to understand.

What actually changes so that “whether you do it or not, all is perfectly fine” becomes your lived experience instead of just an idea?

 

Here's how you and he are different.  He has died and come back. So he realized that death is an illusion.  Now he can do whatever and it is whatever because he understands it's a dream. Your time will come because you are here. Talking to us.  So you will get there.  For now just live life and don't force it.

Edited 4 hours ago by Inliytened1

[gettoefl]

39 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

That last part is exactly what I’m trying to understand.

What actually changes so that “whether you do it or not, all is perfectly fine” becomes your lived experience instead of just an idea?

 

Like I say, it is a shift or an awakening from the apparent world to the actual world. It boils down to, what you are and what is here now. What you see with your eyes / in the mirror is a passing appearance and the world is / you are not that. This is the work. Meditation is a good practice. From there you abide in and align with the real you.