Men of the forum - Respect / Love

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, aurum said:

Yes, that's how respect works.

Whose respect do you want?  

[Jirh]

1 minute ago, aurum said:

Still a burden, just willing taken on.

That's putting the cart before the horse.

You don't take on what you like doing, you just like doing it.

Is anyone forcing me to write out this comment? No. I simply wrote it out because I wanted to.

It's that simple. Authenticity.

[aurum]

2 minutes ago, Jirh said:

That's putting the cart before the horse.

You don't take on what you like doing, you just like doing it.

Is anyone forcing me to write out this comment? No. I simply wrote it out because I wanted to.

It's that simple. Authenticity.

No, because writing this comment is not a serious burden.

I'm talking about actual burden with consequences, not just having fun.

Imagine if you wrote the wrong comment and five people died.

[Jirh]

1 minute ago, aurum said:

No, because writing this comment is not a serious burden.

I'm talking about actual burden with consequences, not just having fun.

Imagine if you wrote the wrong comment and five people died.

That's just called lack of mastery.

When you are a master, everything feels effortless. You don't feel a burden.

[aurum]

4 minutes ago, Jirh said:

That's just called lack of mastery.

When you are a master, everything feels effortless. You don't feel a burden.

Mastery can improve your skills and your confidence. It does not eliminate burden.

[aurum]

18 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Whose respect do you want?  

You need respect from anyone you are going to lead.

[Emull]

18 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Tell me.

If you could choose what you want to hear more from a partner:

"I deeply respect you"

or

"I deeply love you"

I do think there will be overlap depending on how we define romantic love - this is about what you want to hear more from a woman.

 

In my opinion, I deeply love you holds more value than I deeply respect you because love can be unconditional while respect is more conditional.

respect vs. disrespect:
respect = holding someone in high regards
disrespect = holding someone in low regards

It's a choice you make depending on how you feel about a specific human being.

[Jirh]

Just now, aurum said:

Mastery can improve your skills and your confidence. It does not eliminate burden.

I think responsibility and burden are two different things, though.

A master is responsible but is never burdened. We actually need insane amounts of responsibility to achieve mastery.

Still, that doesn't make it burdensome.

I think burden comes from lack of authenticity.

[aurum]

19 minutes ago, Jirh said:

I think responsibility and burden are two different things, though.

A master is responsible but is never burdened. We actually need insane amounts of responsibility to achieve mastery.

Still, that doesn't make it burdensome.

I think burden comes from lack of authenticity.

Burden is a perfectly good word to describe the experience of responsibility. There’s a weight to it.

Burden does not necessarily contradict authenticity.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

6 hours ago, LordFall said:

I@Natasha Tori Maru Also to answer your point on contractors demanding respect sometimes they can be worth respect and you just forget to give it but a lot of times men that ask for respect haven't done to earn it and they're trying to gaslight/manipulate you into giving praise like a hurt child. I don't think that's very respectable. 

I think your interpretation here is interesting.

Maybe founded on misunderstanding - the conversations I have with the male contractors regarding respect / love were in the context of romantic relationship. The topics ranged from gestures of love and respect, how it is felt & received - and what words we would prefer to hear to supplement the feelings and messages communicated in non-language format.

This is why the question I posed was respect / love expressed using language.

Higher levels of respect, to me, are earned. 

[Jirh]

5 hours ago, aurum said:

Burden is a perfectly good word to describe the experience of responsibility. There’s a weight to it.

Burden does not necessarily contradict authenticity.

Maybe.

But it's not like you're a neurosurgeon. Nobody's gonna die in social interactions if you drop the weight and be authentic.

[Joseph Maynor]

9 hours ago, aurum said:

You need respect from anyone you are going to lead.

I don't ever want to feel like I want to lead anyone I relate with as a partner.  That is a burden, no?  

[LordFall]

5 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don't ever want to feel like I want to lead anyone I relate with as a partner.  That is a burden, no?  

Sure, it's a sense of responsability. Both people should add value to the relationship but why are you scared of leadership? If shit goes down you want to take care of your woman, no? I think that's fundamentally one of the core differences between masculinity and feminininity, one wants to protect and the other wants to be taken cared of. Now of course both people get taken care of in a relationship(hopefully) but things in life are never equal even if it's 55/45. I guess you could also look at it in terms of leadership in different domains of the relationship like raising children vs providing economically. 

If one party stops leading then the relationship stagnates the way I look at it. Life is based on entropy at the moment. 

[trenton]

@Natasha Tori Maru

Personally I want both. I want someone to love and respect me. I lean toward respect because love is too ambiguous.

Love is ambiguous enough that a narcissist or psychopath could say I love you. It is also possible for an alcoholic to love you in that state even while they actively beat and rape you due to impaired judgment. I also remember that "pedophile" literally means "child lover." Pedophiles deeply love our children, but they don't respect them.

Love would be better if it were concretely defined. Otherwise, "I love you" could easily mean, "I don't want you to break my heart because I am very possessive to the point that if you don't do as I say I will cut off your private parts. I also really love it when you buy me new clothes and a car with all of your life savings! I love you so much babe! I'm glad you will never leave me, right?" (Brandishing a knife) I actually met people who were in these types of relationships. They had wedding plans, but they were cancelled.

I remember there is also the Yandere. "If I can't have you, then no one can! I love you so much that I will end your life right now!"

Love is extremely unreliable unless it is concretely defined. Before someone says "I love you" it will need to be discussed in detail to define what exactly is meant by such a statement. Otherwise, it could be something like a mother having a psychotic breakdown to the point that she protects her baby from harm by committing infanticide.

Love is a scary thing

[aurum]

12 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don't ever want to feel like I want to lead anyone I relate with as a partner.  That is a burden, no?  

Well that's your choice.

In a sense, it's good that you're not overeager to lead. That itself can be a red flag.

But also, I would consider the consequences of not being willing to step into leadership at all.