Most Dating Books/Teachers Aren't Exceptional

[Ulax]

6 hours ago, Jirh said:

Me too, somehow, but it aged me backwards 😂

loool

[something_else]

1 hour ago, AION said:

If we use that definition, everybody has some bias including women. Because I don't see women looking at men from men's POV

Yea, that was the exact point being made. Most people are incredibly biased. That's the default. 

Being wise involves being acutely aware of your own biases, not denying their existence or claiming that you're above them. That is delusion.

Bias is incredibly subtle and tricky. It grabs the balls of your rational mind and puts them in a vice, then forces it to produce an endless stream of very logical reasons for why your biases are the right biases.

Edited 4 hours ago by something_else

[AION]

3 minutes ago, something_else said:

Yea, that was the exact point being made. Most people are incredibly biased. That's the default. 

Being wise involves being acutely aware of your own biases, not denying their existence or claiming that you're above them. That is delusion.

Bias is incredibly subtle and tricky. It grabs the balls of your rational mind and puts them in a vice, then forces it to produce an endless stream of very logical reasons for why your biases are the right biases.

Everybody has a bias for survival. And it is ok to know that and also ok to act upon that. So if somebody comes inside of your room and tries to rape your ass it is ok to defend yourself and act upon your bias for survival. I think you guys are conflating a lot of things. 

[Miguel1]

14 minutes ago, AION said:

So if somebody comes inside of your room and tries to rape your ass it is ok to defend yourself and act upon your bias for survival.

The problem comes when you act this way even in a normal comfortable situation, because your mind is just that biased.

[Ulax]

11 hours ago, Zen LaCroix said:

I noticed that in the forum in general a patternI have noticed for months you calling people immature. What is your meaning of immature?

It is just part of his development he is going through.

[something_else]

27 minutes ago, AION said:

Everybody has a bias for survival. And it is ok to know that and also ok to act upon that. So if somebody comes inside of your room and tries to rape your ass it is ok to defend yourself and act upon your bias for survival. I think you guys are conflating a lot of things. 

To a degree. Yes, bias can be useful in a genuine survival situation.

But if someone breaks into your room, you have direct evidence that person is dangerous. That is completely different from being generally prejudiced against men because one might hypothetically attack you. Or being generally prejudice against women because the only value you see in them is as being meat to stick your dick in.

Some biases being useful does not make all biases justified. Context matters a lot. In the vast majority of cases (e.g. the bias you show on this form towards women) your survival is not threatened enough to justify acting on bias instead of truth and understanding.

[Jirh]

1 hour ago, AION said:

Everybody has a bias for survival. And it is ok to know that and also ok to act upon that. So if somebody comes inside of your room and tries to rape your ass it is ok to defend yourself and act upon your bias for survival. I think you guys are conflating a lot of things. 

They are saying you are the one who is trying to rape their ass.

[Jirh]

@AION I was just explaining, relax.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, AION said:

Bias is just a word for preference.

Not really. We don't really care about your preferences.

This issue is about understanding. Bias is a lack of understanding. A bias towards women means that women are not being understood accurately, for themselves.

Regardless of your personal preferences, you should be interested in understanding women accurately, for themselves, not for you.

This is not about whether you like strawberries, but about whether you even understand what a strawberry is. Eating and liking strawberries is different from understanding them.

Edited 2 hours ago by Leo Gura

[something_else]

20 minutes ago, AION said:

Bias is just a word for preference. Everybody has a preference. It is part of having a self. Like having a sexual orientation, wanting your team to win, liking strawberries etc  

🫪

Disliking strawberries is a personal preference. Disliking or discriminating against someone because they’re a woman is prejudice.

You’re conflating completely different things by hiding them under the word “preference.”

Edited 2 hours ago by something_else

[AION]

Just understanding what a strawberry is doesn’t make me like it. For example find somebody who dislikes strawberries and tell him everything there is to know about strawberries. It won’t change his taste. 

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, AION said:

Just understanding what a strawberry is doesn’t make me like it. For example find somebody who dislikes strawberries and tell him everything there is to know about strawberries. It won’t change his taste. 

The issue is that his dislike will prevent him from ever truly understanding the thing he dislikes.

Disliking a thing before understanding it, is backwards.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Xonas Pitfall]

You can have any bias.

However, where people are arguing is that you take a bias and claim it as the truth.

What you're saying isn't "the truth." It's just your preference.

The problem is that you mask it, present it as the truth, and then claim you're being demonized for "speaking the truth." But that's not what's happening. You're presenting your bias as if it's the truth. That's the fundamental flaw (issue).

Edited 1 hour ago by Xonas Pitfall

[AION]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The issue is that his dislike will prevent him from ever truly understanding the thing he dislikes.

Disliking a thing before understanding it, is backwards.

Nah, Ken Wilber is very clear about this topic. Taste/preference and truth are completely different domains. You can dislike something and still fully understand it. Conflating the two is a very basic category error.

You thinking you have to like something for it to be true is actually epistemologically unsound. That means you only think those things are true that you like.

For example if I dislike strawberries and I'm self aware of that, and not let it infect my truth seeking, there is no problem.  But thinking you have to like strawberries to understand creates blind spots and you might look unreasonably favorable at strawberries. It is the same mistake from another angle.

Edited 1 hour ago by AION

[something_else]

Just now, AION said:

Nah, Ken Wilber is very clear about this topic. Taste/preference and truth are completely different domains. You can dislike something and still fully understand it. Conflating the two is a very basic category error.

You thinking you have to like something for it to be true is actually epistemologically unsound. That means you only think those things are true that you like.

For example if I dislike strawberries and I'm self aware of that, and not let it contain my truth seeking, there is no problem.  But thinking you have to like strawberries to understand creates blind spots and you might look unreasonably favorable at strawberries.

You've got to be trolling at this point, right? 😂

The whole point is that you need to be relatively neutral and unknowing towards something before you form an opinion on it, if you want that opinion to have any chance of being accurate. You don't like it, you don't dislike it. You are neutral and open minded.

Claiming you are self-aware of your own bias and that you don't let it cloud your judgment is, to be frank, laughable. People spend their entire lives aiming to reach a state like that and are still plagued with blind spots. Right now you are at the peak of a Dunning-Kreuger chart.

And, again, taste/preference are entirely separate thing. Being biased against women in the way you often present it is not a 'preference' or a 'taste'.

[VioleGrace]

3 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

The problem comes when you act this way even in a normal comfortable situation, because your mind is just that biased.

Exactly when it is unconscious that you don't even aware of that @AION it is the problem 

Everybody is biased that is true the work is to be aware or it ans recognize it

when you say "this is truth" using a biased view you get away from the truth 

[Valach]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

You've got to be trolling at this point, right? 😂

The whole point is that you need to be relatively neutral and unknowing towards something before you form an opinion on it, if you want that opinion to have any chance of being accurate. You don't like it, you don't dislike it. You are neutral and open minded.

Claiming you are self-aware of your own bias and that you don't let it cloud your judgment is, to be frank, laughable. People spend their entire lives aiming to reach a state like that and are still plagued with blind spots. Right now you are at the peak of a Dunning-Kreuger chart.

And, again, taste/preference are entirely separate thing. Being biased against women in the way you often present it is not a 'preference' or a 'taste'.

I just want to say that, regardless of whether I agree with every opinions of yours, I really appreciate how elegantly and constructively you present your opinions. Been noticing it for some time

[AION]

4 minutes ago, something_else said:

You've got to be trolling at this point, right? 😂

The whole point is that you need to be relatively neutral and unknowing towards something before you form an opinion on it, if you want that opinion to have any chance of being accurate. You don't like it, you don't dislike it. You are neutral and open minded.

Claiming you are self-aware of your own bias and that you don't let it cloud your judgment is, to be frank, laughable. People spend their entire lives aiming to reach a state like that and are still plagued with blind spots. Right now you are at the peak of a Dunning-Kreuger chart.

And, again, taste/preference are entirely separate thing. Being biased against women in the way you often present it is not a 'preference' or a 'taste'.

That is what I meant. One must be neutral towards it. So I don't need to like strawberries to understand it (reread Leo's comment towards me) meaning I'm neutral towards it. You guys are gaslightening me and then think you are smart 🤣

Edited 41 minutes ago by AION

[Xonas Pitfall]

6 minutes ago, AION said:

That is what I meant. One must be neutral towards it. So I don't need to like strawberries to understand it (reread Leo's comment towards me) meaning I'm neutral towards it. You guys are gaslightening me and then think you are smart 🤣

The issue is that you think you're being objective, but you're using your biased perspective to claim it's the truth. That's what people have an issue with. You can like/prefer whatever you want, but you're claiming a lot of things that aren't correct or truthful, and that's what people are calling you out on. That's the issue.

Edited 34 minutes ago by Xonas Pitfall

[something_else]

18 minutes ago, AION said:

That is what I meant. One must be neutral towards it. So I don't need to like strawberries to understand it (reread Leo's comment towards me) meaning I'm neutral towards it. You guys are gaslightening me and then think you are smart 🤣

Leo's comment says nothing about liking anything. He specifically says 'disliking a thing before understanding the thing is backwards', implying that you should understand something before you dislike it. There is no mention of liking at all.

You literally just misunderstood what Leo was saying. Or you interpreted it that way because you wanted to see it that way which, ironically, is the exact thing about bias that is problematic.

Edited 22 minutes ago by something_else