Let’s Take Looksmaxxing Seriously

[AtmanIsBrahman]

I’ve been thinking about making this post for a while. I just want to alert you guys to the fact that looks are important for dating. Pickup is nice and all and does help, but our looks matter more realistically. If a very attractive guy does pickup, he will have WAY better results than an average person, let alone someone below average. 

Let me clarify that I’m not one of the ideological “blackpilled” looksmaxxing people who have been circulating lately. But I have looked into the looksmaxxing space to extract the juice and leave behind all the resentment, ideology, and noise.

Why are looks important? Simply put, we evaluate people’s attractiveness almost instantly, as a biologically ingrained mechanism. We essentially have a perfect looks-rating device that we use unconsciously, though we ironically can’t give accurate ratings (people are rated 7/10 on average, which is stupid). Looks are an indicator of genetic quality and there are good survival reasons for why we value them. 

Doing the whole Owen Cook pickup thing is ineffective if you look bad. Even granted that it helps you get better with women (and I don’t really care to debate how much it does), it’s silly not to be optimizing the other factor that makes you have success with women— looks.

Now I’ll evaluate Leo’s looks profile. This is just an honest assessment and not a personal attack.

Leo is 6’2. This is a huge advantage in attractiveness, as height is a big factor in addition to facial harmony. The average male height is 5’9, so Leo towers over the average male by 5 inches. Think about this in a club environment—Leo is able to see above other people and actively heightmogs the vast majority of people. 6’2-6’3 is also often considered the ideal height, as beyond that there are diminishing returns and a degree of “freak effect.”

Next, Leo is not attractive but not unattractive either facially. I’d estimate he’s probably slightly above average. But what’s interesting is how he has unknowingly looksmaxxed subtly, which is ironic given the emphasis on pickup. The biggest looksmax by far is having a low body fat percentage, which makes your facial structure more visible. Fat is bad for looks, and the ideal range is considered to be 8-12 percent body fat (depending on your specific genetics). Leo is quite lean, far more so than the average person. Additionally, Leo’s facial hair covers a likely suboptimal lower third (chin and jaw area), which is another effective looksmax.

So what if Leo was 5’9, overweight, and had no facial hair? Would the results be the same?

My point stands. 

The practical upshot of this is that improving your looks is helpful and worth doing. There is a lot of research into this subject you can do, and you have a choice how far to go, from softmaxxes (non-invasive things like hairstyle, clothing, skincare) all the way to hardmaxxes (surgeries). Obviously be safe and don’t buy into the incel ideology BS.

Objections:

Looksmaxxing isn’t spiritual. True, but getting laid isn’t spiritual in general; it is survival. If you’re doing survival, might as well do it effectively

Why change your face? That’s so insecure/feminine/low-consciousness. Look, being attached to how your face looks is classic ego. The stigma against rhinoplasties is a part of this. If someone wants to improve their nose based on objective considerations and they are well-informed, surgery is awesome. There’s also a certain beauty to aesthetics for their own sake.

By looksmaxxing, you are mainly just doing a survival activity, but since you’re focused on the actual truth of attraction, it is a microdose of spiritual embodiment— as it’s closer to truth than “coping”. Spirituality is just seeing the Truth.
 

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

You've been pushing this narrative for a while.

It could possibly appear as if the assumption is we do not know.

[Valach]

From my experience in the real world. Looks are vastly overrated (probably not here), especially for men. Met plenty of not so good looking men doing well and plenty of conventionally attractive men who did quite poorly.

Edited 2 hours ago by Valach

[Joseph Maynor]

What is weird is when people think they are improving their look but it actually makes them look worse.

[AtmanIsBrahman]

49 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You've been pushing this narrative for a while.

It could possibly appear as if the assumption is we do not know.

Not sure what you mean. If you’re saying it’s better to stay in not knowing about whether looks or game is better, that’s fair, but my point is more about taking the looks part seriously as they aren’t mutually exclusive. The balance could be 65% game and 35% looks and it would still be worth paying attention to looks.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@AtmanIsBrahman I am saying it genuinely appears you are assuming others don't know looks effect how others perceive you.

Do you think emphasising this is for the good? What could it be achieving that is negative? What positive? 

What do you think are long term issues?

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Hojo]

@Joseph Maynor probably because you cant max out your looks the whole idea dosent make sense. Eventually you take away things that made you special and unique to fit a clown idea of what it is.

If you define yourself as a looksmaxxer you already fked yourself. Its not achievable. And the idea leave you feeling like you need too.

You end up in a situation where if you dont do it you aren't looksmaxxing and if you do you take the chance to fk it up.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Joseph Maynor probably because you cant max out your looks the whole idea dosent make sense. Eventually you take away things that made you special and unique to fit a clown idea of what it is.

If you define yourself as a looksmaxxer you already fked yourself. Its not achievable. And the idea leave you feeling like you need too.

You end up in a situation where if you dont do it you aren't looksmaxxing and if you do you take the chance to fk it up.

You can work on your look.  But it is a balance though.  You have to be conscious of what you are doing.  We are all concerned with our look.  

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Let's take it seriously!! 

https://youtu.be/WLsHZznqrMY?si=_ZNuG_SCWz1oKPs6

[Sugarcoat]

I get the sense that people who feel strong need to point out the importance of these things, is because they dont have strong enough desire to genuinely want to do it for themselves. So it’s like you’re also in a way trying to convince yourself of the importance of this when writing about it . If you genuinely wanted to go to barber shop and get nice haircut regardless, would you really feel need to write this long text about it
 

Also you won’t look better than the healthiest version of yourself and that includes health on all levels meaning also inner state (because it will have effect on cellular level) Rest is just modifications and enhancement, for example make up is not how one actually looks . So actually “looks-maxing” in its basis is quite natural and healthy

Edited 2 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[LordFall]

Why is looksmaxxing not spiritual? People are way too sensitive when it comes to beauty. Aesthetics are one of the most beautiful aspect of reality. Mountains ranges and the french riviera are nicer to look at than plains or swamps. Both can be appreciated but there are unique aesthetic value to some landscapes that others don't have.  Overobsessing on it or not accepting yourself because of it are different concepts entirely. I always liked the idea that you should think of yourself as always awesome but always on your way to becoming more awesome. 

@Natasha Tori Maru Most people can do a lot better than they give themselves credit for. Especially in terms of fashion and jewelry and of course fitness. It seems appearance is so sensitive that people aren't comfortable thinking about how they can do better, which is wild because it's gonna have a drastic impact on how you're perceived by others so you're like drowning yourself slowly for no reason basically.

For example this is how I look when I'm in a working phase and don't really care about my appearance vs when I go out. I've tried many times to test it and the results I get when I groom properly and wear those colored contacts are vastly different. 

People also vastly underestimate what proper photography and online content does for you. These pictures are taken like 20 seconds apart its just a difference of angle and lighting 

Also fitness is so important. I'm 6'4 and 150 lbs right now(that pic was prolly like 145 lbs). I feel both the difference in how women treat dudes that are actually fit also it physiologically lowers my confidence. I notice I shrink a bit physically when walking by or talking to a dude that has more muscle mass. It's something I've procrastinated but I'm gonna fix in the next couple years because it caps my results big time. Gemini told me it affects my energy levels due to lack of glycogen so I've also unconsciously been sabotaging my business.  

Especially men tend to be unaware of their appearance and when I do tinder reviews for clients I'm shocked at what I see and how men sabotage how they portray themselves. One makeover can make a huge difference. I used to think I was ugly and now when I try I get cute girls with boyfriends looking at me or the milf types licking their lips lol. The difference in my self esteem alone is huge let alone actually being able to sleep with attractive women.

Edited 2 hours ago by LordFall

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, LordFall said:

swamps

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@LordFall 

Women have engaged in looksmaxing for millenia.

It's a substantial part of their interactions with each other.

And consumer culture.

My point is - this isn't new.

It's not revolutionary.

The majority of people don't "avoid talking about it" 

[LordFall]

Sure, which is why looksmaxxing is mostly a phenomenon in male centric communities. I think women are better at supporting each other with their goals than men, it can be a bit too much into the delusional point and lack of accountability but generally it seems pretty on point. I'm sure it's partly why women are starting to outdo men in the west. 

Although western women tend to be quite overweight, most men when they travel to Eastern Europe are surprised that almost every woman there is hot. They seem to have a healthier relationship with food over there and more strict cultural standards. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Ever noticed that once you are aware of something, when you care less about it - you get better at it? 

The concept of "maxing" is the flaw. An endless striving loop. Awareness is all you need, but giving too many fucks is going to trap you in an anxious loop from hell. 

Not to mention, no one is attending to what @Sugarcoat raised: by telling yourself you need to become or be or do something to get "it" (whatever it may be, in this case, being good looking) - you are actually reinforcing you are not it. 

Not good looking, need to be. 

It's no secret looks matter. But maximizing? Endless striving? 

"Maxing" is the issue. It's a warning this can slide into bad things. Not for all. Not always. Be be aware.

Looks optimising. Cool. 

Watch attachment to the material. It's the human fallacy of "more is better" that can be smuggled into the concept. I say, watch out for that!

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Sugarcoat]

21 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Not to mention, no one is attending to what @Sugarcoat raised: by telling yourself you need to become or be or do something to get "it" (whatever it may be, in this case, being good looking) - you are actually reinforcing you are not it. 

Not good looking, need to be. 

Not what I meant. If you think the body you live in looks ugly, then think so if it’s authentic . 

Edited 1 hour ago by Sugarcoat

[Hojo]

@LordFall i feel like you are full of yourself.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Sugarcoat right, so then I riffed off your point 😃

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Sugarcoat right, so then I riffed off your point 😃

Oh ok 

[LordFall]

14 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@LordFall i feel like you are full of yourself.

In what way?