The real reason governments allow immigrants?

[enchanted]

The #1 reason governments allow immigrants to enter rich countries is to increase the otherwise aging and declining population due to low birthrates. 

The members of the rich countries refuse to do menial work. Immigrants from poor countries are more willing to do unsatisfying work.

Politicians don't broadcast this message because it blames the local voter base. 

The truth is rich countries desperately need immigrants to avoid the most pertinent threat to it's survival: low birth rates and aging population. 

Edited 20 hours ago by enchanted

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

I don't think it was a rational decision. I think it was just about a bunch of western politicians wanting to feel good about themselves, and look good to their voters (also the kind of people wanting to feel good about themselves). Because it is ultimately them who were making those decisions, sure there's been some NGO and corporate lobbying before, but they had no rational motivations. Especially Merkel and her party in 2015 for example, when she just openly invited the refugees into Europe. First the west messes up the region with wars (mostly the job of righties although even lefties were involved somewhat), then when the leftie softies are in power suddenly our values are tolerance and inclusivity and shit like that. And it doesn't help the birth rate one bit LOL maybe increases the crime rate a little

[enchanted]

1 hour ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

I don't think it was a rational decision. I think it was just about a bunch of western politicians wanting to feel good about themselves, and look good to their voters (also the kind of people wanting to feel good about themselves). 

Thanks for the reply. This common narrative is the one I'm trying to counter. I'm suggesting that politicians are not being honest when they dont say the real reason immigrants are being let in. The real reason is the aging and declining population. 

Edited 17 hours ago by enchanted

[Jodistrict]

The op is closer to the truth.  The immigrants who are being targeted by ICE are productive people doing jobs nobody else wants.  They are actually contributing to the economy.   Billions of dollars are spent on ICE to attack productive people.  Productive people are replaced by law enforcement.  An ICE agent isn't going to mow your lawn or wash your dishes.  The allegations of “illegal criminals” is used to stir up the self- righteousness of the monkeys  and make them feel good about themselves (think Planet of the Apes).   

Edited 17 hours ago by Jodistrict

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, enchanted said:

The #1 reason governments allow immigrants to enter rich countries is to increase the otherwise aging and declining population due to low birthrates. 

The members of the rich countries refuse to do menial work. Immigrants from poor countries are more willing to do unsatisfying work.

Politicians don't broadcast this message because it blames the local voter base. 

The truth is rich countries desperately need immigrants to avoid the most pertinent threat to it's survival: low birth rates and aging population. 

That don't add up.

America has been doing immigration for 200 years. Long before recent birthrate problems.

The better reason is labor. Immigrants are effectively slave labor. They do the jobs locals are too spoiled to do.

[enchanted]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That don't add up.

America has been doing immigration for 200 years. Long before recent birthrate problems.

The better reason is labor. Immigrants are effectively slave labor. They do the jobs locals are too spoiled to do.

Interesting, yes I'm not sure where the truth lies. Then why is there so much talk about immigrants these days in every developed nation? 

 Thanks Leo for your reply!

Edited 12 hours ago by enchanted

[enchanted]

Hard-right Swiss party is holding a vote this Sunday to cap population at 10 million mainly due to the rise of immigrants. A first of its kind....

Switzerland to vote on plan to cap population at 10 million https://share.google/5VvXmZcwlVbTXPQDA

 

Edited 12 hours ago by enchanted

[Ajay0]

Migrations can also bring great changes for the better in various fields.

The Romani people—often historically termed "Gypsies"—migrated from the Punjab region of northern India into Europe between the 8th and 14th centuries. Their enduring legacy encompasses immense contributions to European arts, music, and linguistics.

Freddie Mercury, considered to be the greatest rock singer ever and who himself is of British-Indian origin, had an iconic opera collaboration in 1986 with the legendary Spanish operatic soprano Montserrat Caballé and who had herself been influenced by Gitano or Spanish Romani musical culture and championed the same. 

 Their partnership resulted in the globally celebrated 1988 anthem "Barcelona," which brilliantly merged rock grandeur with operatic soprano vocals.

In India itself, the zoroastrians and Jews who migrated to India as refugees due to Arab and Roman persecution respectively, were noted for their contributions in various fields that enriched the country in multiple domains.

India similarly hosted the Bahai refugees from Iranian persecution. The Bahai Lotus temple in Delhi, India is now considered an architectural wonder and symbolic of Indian architecture like the Taj Mahal and Konark Sun Temple.

[gettoefl]

14 hours ago, enchanted said:

The #1 reason governments allow immigrants to enter rich countries is to increase the otherwise aging and declining population due to low birthrates. 

The members of the rich countries refuse to do menial work. Immigrants from poor countries are more willing to do unsatisfying work.

Politicians don't broadcast this message because it blames the local voter base. 

The truth is rich countries desperately need immigrants to avoid the most pertinent threat to it's survival: low birth rates and aging population. 

You are right. But no politician is selling this manifesto. Or even believing it. They will be sent a-packing on the next boat. Can you name one who espouses this?

The world is brainwashed that immigrants are the source of evil, decline, poverty and criminality. After all don't they go round with ceremonial knives attacking innocent people and demanding their barbaric values be enacted into law?

[Basman]

It's a mix of practical economic reasons and ideological ones. Centrist politicians tend to believe in migration as a humanitarian good. They feel enriched by it beyound juch the raw economic ideas behind it imo. 

The migration policies of the 2010s in particular never had popular democratic backing however such that many felt that migration was something being done to them, which gave a lot of ammo to populists like Trump or Farage. Now migration is becoming a lot stricter. Sweden has done a 180 on its migration policy for instance. 

In my experience, its quiet rare for general people to be pro migration, at least of the Merkel kind. Only the most left wing people I know tend to be broadly pro migration, and usually for sentimental reasons. "They are people too" , etc.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, enchanted said:

Then why is there so much talk about immigrants these days in every developed nation?

Because every developed nation needs them for slave labor, but they don't like the cultural and ethnic changes this brings.

Americans want it both ways: They want the cheap labor of Mexicans, but not their culture, skin color, and language.

It is like hiring an immigrant lawnmower because you are too lazy to mow your own lawn, but also hating him at the same time because he isn't your kind.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Apparition of Jack]

@Leo Gura yeah, I think it basically comes down to economics.

Even just your average middle class American or Brit is living a lifestyle that would be in the top 1% of most third world countries, so in that situation it’s basically inevitable that people from those countries will do anything that they can to try and have a chance at their life. If you’re a young engineering student from Senegal for instance, are you going to put up with rampant corruption, pollution, crime, unemployment etc in your home country, or are you going to take a shot at earning 50x more than you ever could by moving to the West, even if you have to put up with shitty pay, racism, long work hours, etc? 
 

Realistically the only way to reduce global migration is to reduce global inequality, but that takes a degree of foresight and cooperation that most politicians and business people aren’t prepared to do. Not to mention, like you said, rich countries like having poor immigrants come in and do the backbreaking labour they’re not prepared to do themselves, even if it ends up changing the culture / demographics overtime. 
 

Obviously there’s more to it than that (enclaves vs assimilation, religious tensions, etc) but so long as the economic factor isn’t addressed all the other points are just superficial grievances IMO. Wealth and security is the primary driver for so much of human activity. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Apparition of Jack

[Never_give_up]

1. more people = more taxes

2. Demographic problems (again more people more taxes). 

3. cheap labor (locals don't do the hard low paying jobs) 

both sides have racists by the way. The idea that immigrants can't be racists is mostly left wing ideological idea and the idea that locals can't be racists is mostly a right wing ideological idea. I am local and have been physicaly bullied tremendously both by immigrants and locals, bad and good people are everywhere, in every country so it's lauhable when people deny that. 

[Yali]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It is like hiring an immigrant lawnmower because you are too lazy to mow your own lawn, but also hating him at the same time because he isn't your kind.

Leo is so honest 

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Never_give_up said:

1. more people = more taxes

 

Also greater strain on welfare and housing and lowers wages. Why hire locals to paint your house when you can hire east-europeans who do it for half the pay? Unless you filter for high skilled migrants, they will on average earn less and be less educated. 

Mass migration tends to benefit elites the most. Your average conservative voter isn't really thinking about who works the factory jobs. A center right migration policy is the most politically sustainable currently imo. Something that only the furthest left parties tend to object to. Even your mom and dad lefty parties like British labor are strict on migration. Denmark has had the strictest migration policies as EU country for ages despite being a progressive welfare state. Sweden has done a complete 180 since the Merkel days. 

[Basman]

When the migrants counter-racist you

 

[enchanted]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is like hiring an immigrant lawnmower because you are too lazy to mow your own lawn, but also hating him at the same time because he isn't your kind.

So true. Or like shipping black people over seas to build your country for free and then hating them at the same time! And racist say black people are dumb!!! Oh the lack of self awareness!!