How did the ( Illusion ) the sense of separation start?

[cetus]

Fear creates the illusion of separation.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Grateful Dead said:

believe that is a misconception on your part. The difference is that I do not perceive living reality outside of myself in the world, but deep within, at the core of being.

Maybe I imagine what Ramana maharshi what to express and I'm wrong, and I thought you meant the same thing.

For me, there are like two types of meditative states. One is being in the pure fact of being; it feels bright, expansive, perfect, and vast. The other is opening yourself to the depth of what you are. It feels deep, alive, connected, and sensual. I have the feeling that for Ramana Maharshi, only the pure being is important to him; the depth doesn't interest him.

[Sugarcoat]

How do you guys even meditate, when I tried it it’s like my body is screaming at me to get tf up and exercise or something instead, why you sitting still. Like it’s not the ego tension preventing me it’s the muscle tension. I can’t relate to these yogis, who just sit there, and not only their ego dissolving but their muscles too, double death. Guess I’ll not be enlightened in this lifetime 

Edited Friday at 08:25 PM by Sugarcoat

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

How do you guys even meditate, when I tried it it’s like my body is screaming at me to get tf up and exercise or something instead, why you sitting still. Like it’s not the ego tension preventing me it’s the muscle tension. I can’t relate to these yogis, who just sit there, and not only their ego dissolving but their muscles too, double death. Guess I’ll not be enlightened in this lifetime 

You are saying that your problem is more physiological than psychological? Like it's not a problem of boredom but pain in the muscles?

Edited Friday at 10:00 PM by Eskilon

[UnbornTao]

13 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

How do you guys even meditate, when I tried it it’s like my body is screaming at me to get tf up and exercise or something instead, why you sitting still. Like it’s not the ego tension preventing me it’s the muscle tension. I can’t relate to these yogis, who just sit there, and not only their ego dissolving but their muscles too, double death. Guess I’ll not be enlightened in this lifetime 

Ah, BS. Your body will slowly get used to longer periods of sitting. You just have to do it. You can also meditate while walking, cooking, etc.

Awakening isn't really the aim of meditation; it's generally directed at calming and focusing the mind and shifting to a more relaxed state.

[Sugarcoat]

On 2026-06-05 at 11:56 PM, Eskilon said:

You are saying that your problem is more physiological than psychological? Like it's not a problem of boredom but pain in the muscles?

Yes. I have extreme case of muscle tension 

[Sugarcoat]

12 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Ah, BS. Your body will slowly get used to longer periods of sitting. You just have to do it. You can also meditate while walking, cooking, etc.

Awakening isn't really the aim of meditation; it's generally directed at calming and focusing the mind and shifting to a more relaxed state.

Yes, you can meditate when walking etc. and you can also meditate while doing  dynamic movements 
 

Why would someone like me with extreme levels of muscle tension chose to sit still for a long time, when I can do dynamic movements for however long 

 And get that effect you talk about (which I’ve thought about too, how I think meditation has much more of that calming etc effect rather than awakening one) PLUS better feeling in the physical body 
 

Actually, the improved feeling in the physical body helps the mental too, helps relax it even deeper than if you didn’t improve the physical feeling 

What you mean by “get used to it”? Just because the body stops bothering you doesn’t mean it wouldnt be better for its health to move more instead . 

Edited Saturday at 10:50 PM by Sugarcoat

[UnbornTao]

42 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yes, you can meditate when walking etc. and you can also meditate while doing  dynamic movements 
 

Why would someone like me with extreme levels of muscle tension chose to sit still for a long time, when I can do dynamic movements for however long 

 And get that effect you talk about (which I’ve thought about too, how I think meditation has much more of that calming etc effect rather than awakening one) PLUS better feeling in the physical body 
 

Actually, the improved feeling in the physical body helps the mental too, helps relax it even deeper than if you didn’t improve the physical feeling 

What you mean by “get used to it”? Just because the body stops bothering you doesn’t mean it wouldnt be better for its health to move more instead . 

It definitely helps.

I'm obviously not familiar with your condition, but yes, as with stretching the body, the muscles and nervous system will eventually get accustomed due to them being trained.

I wasn't saying to choose one over the other. Movement is beneficial. If you want to sit for about half an hour, or whatever you find slightly physically challenging, then you just do it until the body adapts - and again, I don't know what your condition is. This isn't medical advice.

It could simply be a limiting belief, an excuse, maybe a lack of desire or discipline to do so, or something else entirely. Training is useful, in any case. I'd say it's more about being mindful than about sitting down or mechanically following a ritual. 

Edited Saturday at 11:32 PM by UnbornTao

[Osaid]

On 6/5/2026 at 2:24 PM, Sugarcoat said:

when I tried it it’s like my body is screaming at me to get tf up and exercise or something instead, why you sitting still.

What about when you're trying to fall asleep? Same deal?

[Sugarcoat]

On 2026-06-07 at 1:15 AM, UnbornTao said:

It definitely helps.

I'm obviously not familiar with your condition, but yes, as with stretching the body, the muscles and nervous system will eventually get accustomed due to them being trained.

I wasn't saying to choose one over the other. Movement is beneficial. If you want to sit for about half an hour, or whatever you find slightly physically challenging, then you just do it until the body adapts - and again, I don't know what your condition is. This isn't medical advice.

It could simply be a limiting belief, an excuse, maybe a lack of desire or discipline to do so, or something else entirely. Training is useful, in any case. I'd say it's more about being mindful than about sitting down or mechanically following a ritual. 

I think I get what you're saying. For me, yes it's to do with lack of inclination to do that classical sitting meditation, so yea the "excuse" is that it starts to feel uncomfortable, and then I chose to not force it further. The focus, calm, stillness, I find I can get them enough from other ways. 

Being mindful yes it can have profound effect and it's available anytime. One can be doing a chore and notice that they're a bit "tensed up" and then you just do this subtle relaxation, and now you've subtly changed your state as you continue what you're doing. All those small shifts on regular basis start to add up. 

I know I already pointed this out to you, but I still don't quite understand nor think I agree with what you said about "the body will adapt". Yes if someone meditates sitting for a long time, they might have major improvements mentally, and that creates a "net positive" effect for them, but still from physical health perspective it would be better to do more movement instead (im not being overly critical here, of course its good that people are meditating its way better than so many things people do, but still I think most people are not getting optimal amount of movement). And you were talking to me, so in my case, and people with posture problems could experience it too, the longer you sit the more tension builds up, so I dont see what youre saying with "it will adapt".

So basically bottom line, I dont really agree with this tendency in spiritual communities etc where many seem to place the sitting meditation above things like yoga. Even with yoga, people will say "oh true yoga isn't about the physical postures it's about the mind". Yes that can be beneficial to do it with a more mind focus, but some people talk as if physical movement, even really slow and mindful, would be some sort of HINDRANCE to spirituality LOL. Not saying that you were saying this, but I mention it because it was one of the major things I thought when I wrote my initial comment

I remember you said recently something like "why you assume Kriya Yoga will give you awakening but not soccer" that was really funny to me and I have thought along those lines as I said here 😁

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

On 2026-06-07 at 1:35 AM, Osaid said:

What about when you're trying to fall asleep? Same deal?

Yes it is something I've experienced. Its not excruciating because Ive made major improvements so im doing fine, but Ive noticed that even if I feel tired (could be early morning or late at night), I will feel this urge to stretch or do movement even stronger than the urge to lay down to sleep. And I dont see it as bad thing, because when I do the movements and release some tension, I notice that I can enter deeper states of relaxation than if I skip the movement/stretching and go lay down. It's a bit crazy sometimes, I can wake up after maybe 5 hours of sleep and experience what I just said. 

Actually, a little diverging but it's related. Ive been going through crazy transformation lately (massive reduction in sleep need is one symptom) and one month into this process, I remember this thing "kundalini awakening". Then I googled it, and it was so descriptive of things im going through. So yea id say that im going through kundalini awakening right now and im like one month into this. I could've never predicted it would happen.

Just sharing, because you guys seem spiritual to me so I guess you can see what im saying  

Edited 2 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

This forum is like crack cocaine 😂 

Edited 2 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

This forum is like crack cocaine 😂

You see

We are cooked

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

You see

We are cooked

It's a net positive thing tho, just go with flow. Im not trying to sound hippie im genuine when I say this 😂

Edited 2 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Osaid]

6 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yes it is something I've experienced. Its not excruciating because Ive made major improvements so im doing fine, but Ive noticed that even if I feel tired (could be early morning or late at night), I will feel this urge to stretch or do movement even stronger than the urge to lay down to sleep. And I dont see it as bad thing, because when I do the movements and release some tension, I notice that I can enter deeper states of relaxation than if I skip the movement/stretching and go lay down. It's a bit crazy sometimes, I can wake up after maybe 5 hours of sleep and experience what I just said. 

Actually, a little diverging but it's related. Ive been going through crazy transformation lately (massive reduction in sleep need is one symptom) and one month into this process, I remember this thing "kundalini awakening". Then I googled it, and it was so descriptive of things im going through. So yea id say that im going through kundalini awakening right now and im like one month into this. I could've never predicted it would happen.

Just sharing, because you guys seem spiritual to me so I guess you can see what im saying  

Interesting.

When the body is still, like in meditation, or even when falling asleep, all sorts of "things" and "ideas" can come up. This is "par for the course".

I bring up sleep, because from my POV, falling asleep is not really different at all from meditation. It's like a mandatory meditation you do every night.

The same happens when the body becomes sick. Lots of people say being sick makes them more humble. Some say it makes them more grateful. Some say it makes them contemplate death more. Depends on the ideas the person has accumulated mentally. Essentially, the state of the body will make all sorts of ideas about yourself come up and out, kind of like a "mental purging".

The exact same happens in meditation.

The "smoothness" of meditation, or dealing with any kind of energetic or emotional state, comes down to your ability to focus on what is present (real) rather than what isn't present (unreal). That's why people use the breath and other things as an "anchor" to focus on. Meditation is going back to what is most fundamental, which is the fact of your existence, in spite of any thoughts that seem tempting to "chase after".

Meditation is "letting go", like sleep is, rather than "chasing after".

Technically, it can be done anywhere, even while moving, as you said. Since the present, or the real, is indeed everywhere.

Keeping the body still is just to lessen the significance of the body.

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

I think I get what you're saying. For me, yes it's to do with lack of inclination to do that classical sitting meditation, so yea the "excuse" is that it starts to feel uncomfortable, and then I chose to not force it further. The focus, calm, stillness, I find I can get them enough from other ways. 

Being mindful yes it can have profound effect and it's available anytime. One can be doing a chore and notice that they're a bit "tensed up" and then you just do this subtle relaxation, and now you've subtly changed your state as you continue what you're doing. All those small shifts on regular basis start to add up. 

I know I already pointed this out to you, but I still don't quite understand nor think I agree with what you said about "the body will adapt". Yes if someone meditates sitting for a long time, they might have major improvements mentally, and that creates a "net positive" effect for them, but still from physical health perspective it would be better to do more movement instead (im not being overly critical here, of course its good that people are meditating its way better than so many things people do, but still I think most people are not getting optimal amount of movement). And you were talking to me, so in my case, and people with posture problems could experience it too, the longer you sit the more tension builds up, so I dont see what youre saying with "it will adapt".

So basically bottom line, I dont really agree with this tendency in spiritual communities etc where many seem to place the sitting meditation above things like yoga. Even with yoga, people will say "oh true yoga isn't about the physical postures it's about the mind". Yes that can be beneficial to do it with a more mind focus, but some people talk as if physical movement, even really slow and mindful, would be some sort of HINDRANCE to spirituality LOL. Not saying that you were saying this, but I mention it because it was one of the major things I thought when I wrote my initial comment

I remember you said recently something like "why you assume Kriya Yoga will give you awakening but not soccer" that was really funny to me and I have thought along those lines as I said here 😁

 

 

Do both then, Yoga and sitting down. Or don't. It was just an observation about the body and often the mind adapting to longer than usual sittings. I don't think you can get away from some degree of discomfort there. Depending on your situation you might want to choose different modalities. Awaken while playing soccer - or while doing anything else. This is something you can do.

Edited 33 minutes ago by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Do both then, Yoga and sitting down. Or don't. It was just an observation about the body and often the mind adapting to longer than usual sittings. I don't think you can get away from some degree of discomfort there. Depending on your situation you might want to choose different modalities. Awaken while playing soccer - or anything else.

Yea I see that is a flexible mindset, it put a period to this “discussion”. 

Edited 46 minutes ago by Sugarcoat

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yea I see that is a flexible mindset, it put a period to this “discussion”. 

Did you determine this or did you rely on his insight or both?  Just curious.  

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Did you determine this or did you rely on his insight or both?  Just curious.  

Determine what? I just said what I thought about his answer 

Edited 41 minutes ago by Sugarcoat

[Joseph Maynor]

22 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Determine what? I just said what I thought about his answer 

I was focusing on where you said you put a period on the discussion.  No worries.  Maybe it is a miscommunication.