So Air causes Cancer... that you believe?

[integral]

Contemplate why you believe:

• Cigarette smoke = Lung Cancer, Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease
• Air pollution = Asthma, lung disease
• Asbestos = Mesothelioma, lung cancer
• Radon gas = Lung Cancer
• Mold spores = allergies, asthma
• Pollen = hay fever, asthma, allergies
• Viruses in air = COVID-19, Influenza
• Chemical fumes (benzene, etc.) = Leukemia, cancer
• Diesel exhaust = lung cancer, breathing problems
• Dust (organic/inorganic) = Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis

So all this air related stuff you understand is bad for you...

BUT WHEN I SAY:

• Laundry detergent = depression, mood issues, agitation, fatigue, poor sleep, skin irritation
• Incense = mood issues, agitation, fatigue, poor sleep, breathing problems
• Perfumes = ADHD, headaches, mood issues, agitation, fatigue, poor sleep
• Foam couch (chemical off-gassing) = thyroid problems, fatigue, extreme fatigue, mood issues, poor sleep, headaches
• Dishwashing soap = digestive problems, fatigue, skin irritation, mood issues
• Air fresheners = hair loss, mood issues, agitation, fatigue, poor sleep, headaches
• Candles (scented) = Mental illness, sedation, fatigue, mood issues, poor sleep, breathing problems
• Cleaning sprays = cognitive decline, agitation, fatigue, headaches, breathing issues
• Paint fumes = mood issues, agitation, fatigue, poor sleep, vision problems
• House insulation = chronic high cortisol, over stimulated nervous system
• Shampoo = bool inflammation

SUDDENLY IM CRAZY. OOOOOk. 😂

Edited Wednesday at 09:39 PM by integral

[Hayato]

You're not crazy. This list is very thorough. 

What are your sources? 

[UnbornTao]

I removed the picture as there could be some validity to what you say, even though sometimes you seem to take it a bit too far with this stuff, in my opinion. Where do you draw the line between functional concern and paranoia? Isn't using a smartphone messing up your brain, sight, etc? It's likely, too, that something less than ideal could be found out about the clothes we use. Etc, etc.

Edited 8 hours ago by UnbornTao

[integral]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

I removed the picture as there could be some validity to what you say, even though sometimes you seem to take it a bit too far with this stuff, in my opinion. Where do you draw the line between functional concern and paranoia? Isn't using a smartphone messing up your brain, sight, etc? It's likely, too, that something less than ideal could be found out about the clothes we use. Etc, etc.

The line is drawn with experimentation and observation.

None of this comes from "I read a study" and therefore I believe it.

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, integral said:

The line is drawn with experimentation and observation.

None of this comes from "I read a study" and therefore I believe it.

I get it. Personally it's not my cup of tea. 

The good thing about valid studies is that they are often less subject to distortion than our subjective assessments and "feelings" about seeming correlations.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Can you show some studies in mechanism of action?

[Osaid]

I don't believe any of that.

BTW, something very simple might be being overlooked. It's not something bad in the air per say, it's just the amount of oxygen. Less oxygen is less conducive to energy production, and more oxygen is more conducive. The proof of this is simply opening a window in a stagnant room and feeling the difference breathing in the "fresh air".

As an anecdote, when I'm cleaning a bathroom using a detergent spray or whatever, there is a noticeable energy difference and maybe even headaches. It's because the spray is simply taking over the oxygen ratio. It immediately fixes just by going outside to breathe.

Edited 4 hours ago by Osaid

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Osaid said:

It's because the spray is simply taking over the oxygen ratio.

It's more than that. Those chemicals are toxic. You can't spray that stuff in your mouth for good reason.

[Osaid]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's more than that. Those chemicals are toxic. You can't spray that stuff in your mouth for good reason.

That's the same thing though. It's toxic because the body can't convert it into anything positive, but the body can definitely convert oxygen. Therefore anything which impedes oxygen or energy conversion will be perceived as toxic. 

I'm just saying that focusing on the oxygen is more fundamental and important than honing in on every little strange chemical or substance. 

It's not a mystery why filling a room with a foreign substance lowers overall energy, it's because what is essential for energy has simply been lowered. 

You have to look at how it's interacting with the body as a whole rather than blaming one substance. A substance does nothing until it interacts with the body, then you study that interaction. 

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Osaid said:

That's the same thing though. It's toxic because the body can't convert it into anything positive, but the body can definitely convert oxygen. Therefore anything which impedes oxygen or energy conversion will be perceived as toxic. 

That's just not true.

The body is very sensitive to all kinds of toxic chemicals regardless of oxygen.

That's what carcinogens, pesticides, and heavy metals are. It is important to avoid those.

Is @integral overly paranoid about other stuff? Yes.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Osaid]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The body is very sensitive to all kinds of toxic chemicals regardless of oxygen.

That's what carcinogens, pesticides, and heavy metals are. It is important to avoid those.

It's toxic because it's taking the place of what isn't toxic.

If you know for a fact that air high in oxygen is good for energy, then it's as simple as removing anything foreign to oxygen, like carcinogens or other particles. Anything foreign would impede the normal energy conversion process.

In this way you don't need to know the specific science and behaviour of each and every substance. It's a more fundamental way of looking at it.

[Carl-Richard]

Did ChatGPT tell you this? ChatGPT psychosis is real.

The thing about these subtle things is that even if you go by experience first ("this seemingly makes me feel x way") and then trying to find a suitable hypothesis for why, is you want to be very clear about testing alternative hypotheses.

For example, I didn't understand every time I eat cod, I get supremely tired. But it did not happen with some other fish or salmon. Turns out cod has around 5x more mercury in it than salmon and other fish at that level of the food chain. My mom blames tryptophan, but then it would also happen if I eat chicken or beef, but that doesn't happen.

Are you doing any of these alternative tests with your hypotheses?

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

@Osaid That's not how chemistry works. Sorry.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Harm isn't caused by just blocking oxygen. The body isn't a combustion engine where oxygen in > energy out > contaminants reduce efficiency. Human biology is simply way more complex and cannot be reduced like that. Shitloads of toxins don't reduce oxygen availability it all... some block enzymes in mitochondria, some cause systemic inflammation. Others damage DNA and signalling pathways....

I am not a biologist so there is probably more. Just off the top of my head.

[Osaid]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Osaid That's not how chemistry works. Sorry.

I'm not claiming to know the chemistry. I'm saying if the toxin is omitted then there's no problem. You don't need to know the chemistry of the substance to solve the problem or narrow down what's problematic.

[integration journey]

I can’t possibly keep track of this full list while also trying to survive in the world 

[integral]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Are you doing any of these alternative tests with your hypotheses?

lmfao you guys have no idea.

At all moments.

I often see experiments happening that randomly showed up, like i walk into a room and notice my brother talking then i see him open a can of coke and i noice the time it takes for him to start slurring his words from fatigue from drinking the coke and the time it takes for his brain to go back to normal.

Its all as obvious as colors changing from red green blue... but no one else has developed there ability to observe so they dont see it.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Is @integral overly paranoid about other stuff? Yes.

Dont light does incense LEOOOOOOOOO!

Edited 1 hour ago by integral

[Leo Gura]

@integral I use RoundUp for mouthwash

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, integral said:

lmfao you guys have no idea.

At all moments.

I often see experiments happening that randomly showed up, like i walk into a room and notice my brother talking then i see him open a can of coke and i noice the time it takes for him to start slurring his words from fatigue from drinking the code and the time it takes for his brain to go back to normal.

Its all as obvious as colors changing from red green blue... but no one else has developed there ability to observe so they dont see it.

I'm not talking about simply making observations. I'm talking about testing it up against alternative hypotheses, what's called "dissociation" in experimental science (or rather in neuropsychology specifically, please forgive me). In other words, you could say that drinking coke seemingly leads to a certain outcome, but when you ask "why", that's more tricky.

Edited 1 hour ago by Carl-Richard

[integral]

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm not talking about simply making observations. I'm talking about testing it up against alternative hypotheses, what's called "dissociation" in experimental science. In other words, you could say that drinking coke seemingly leads to a certain outcome, but when you ask "why", that's more tricky.

In your example the hypothesis was that "fish makes me tired" but you kept it open ended, after you tried other fish and it turned out only cod made you tired. This is to narrow down the candidate moves/causes. With out this people go down conspiracy and new age land immediately.

And yes of course im doing this 24/7! It's the foundation of epistemology and caring about what is true. It also happens to be something you learn when playing chess. Chess forces you to stop fooling yourself (at chess), because the board punish you. In the real world because it's an open system, you could get away with believing whatever you want, and reality won't punish you (most of the time).

Edited 53 minutes ago by integral