Are you a believer? Or; How much of a believer are you?

[UnbornTao]

I found this unlisted video while doing some research. It is a sharp observation. (And notice that, at the same time, they still largely fell into the trap they were cautioning against)

 

This can be an extremely subtle and insidious dynamic - in many different domains. 

Do you think this video, and the very need and impulse to believe, doesn't currently apply to you?

Edited 8 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Lila9]

This reminds me of Osho, who talked about trusting existence rather than having faith in some divine figure, guru, or caricature of God (which is more of a concept).

Existence is here and now, we are interwoven in it, in our breath and heartbeats, inseparable from it.

It takes care of us. There is no need to guess, open cards, read coffee grounds to know what it is, or make efforts to be a better believer.

It is here and now in our very being, in what is. We have a direct connection to the source.

Edited 7 hours ago by Lila9

[James123]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

I found this unlisted video while doing some research. It is a sharp observation. (And notice that, at the same time, they still largely fell into the trap they were cautioning against)

 

This can be an extremely subtle and insidious dynamic - in many different domains. 

Do you think this video, and the very need and impulse to believe, doesn't currently apply to you?

Real believing is surrendering the believer.

That's what love to / of god is.

[Mixcoatl]

I believe in some science, that's how it works. I try not to believe in spiritual teachers or groups but sometimes I fail.

[UnbornTao]

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

This reminds me of Osho, who talked about trusting existence rather than having faith in some divine figure, guru, or caricature of God (which is more of a concept).

Existence is here and now, we are interwoven in it, in our breath and heartbeats, inseparable from it.

It takes care of us. There is no need to guess, open cards, read coffee grounds to know what it is, or make efforts to be a better believer.

It is here and now in our very being, in what is. We have a direct connection to the source.

I liked this.

It's tricky because, even though we might be cognizant of this trap on some level, we can still be under the spell of beliefs.

To be clear, I don't want to give the impression that believing is bad. Mistaking this activity for the truth is another thing - which is what we have to increasingly become aware of, if discovery and growth are our goal.

What do I think is true that I haven't personally experienced?

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, James123 said:

Real believing is surrendering the believer.

That's what love to / of god is.

How so? Unless it were a religion, why would it have to involve belief if so-called existence is presumably what's being sought?

Belief is antithetical to discovery.

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Mixcoatl said:

I believe in some science, that's how it works. I try not to believe in spiritual teachers or groups but sometimes I fail.

Good. Science doesn't demand belief (as much, perhaps), so in that sense, whether an experiment or discovery is factual is more relevant than whether we believe in it or not. Belief is - or should be, in theory - less present in scientific circles and methodologies.

It could go much deeper than what initially comes to mind, though. What are belief and the act of believing?

If you set aside any form of conjecture, assumption, hearsay, learned notion, belief - what's left in your experience relative to the nature of things? Nothing, most likely - this is virtually a universally-shared condition.

Edited 2 hours ago by UnbornTao

[James123]

5 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

How so? Unless it were a religion, why would it have to involve belief if so-called existence is presumably what's being sought?

 

Religion is based on belief system. So, surrendering the religion or the believer.

7 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Belief is antithetical to discovery.

Discovery is a belief itself.

There is nothing outside of You, all is within. Therefore any attempt makes you far. Just simply Be. And see entire universe turns within You.

[UnbornTao]

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

Religion is based on belief system. So, surrendering the religion or the believer.

Agree.

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

Discovery is a belief itself.

In the way I'm using the term, not really. A discovery is by definition an encounter with the reality of something, whereas belief is basically a thought about the reality of something. Analogously, it would be like seeing Santa Claus yourself versus merely believing in his existence (sorry, kids).

5 minutes ago, James123 said:

There is nothing outside of You, all is within. Therefore any attempt makes you far. Just simply Be. And see entire universe turns within You.

Hmm... this sounds good, and it smells like a belief itself at the same time. 

Just my intuition, I could be wrong. 

[James123]

14 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Agree.

In the way I'm using the term, not really. A discovery is by definition an encounter with the reality of something, whereas belief is basically a thought about the reality of something. Analogously, it would be like seeing Santa Claus yourself versus merely believing in his existence (sorry, kids).

Hmm... this sounds good, and it smells like a belief itself at the same time. 

Just my intuition, I could be wrong. 

No expectations, wanting, wishes, even trying to see or be.

Simply Be and see.

[UnbornTao]

29 minutes ago, James123 said:

No expectations, wanting, wishes, even trying to see or be.

Simply Be and see.

OK then. 

[UnbornTao]

47 minutes ago, James123 said:

No expectations, wanting, wishes, even trying to see or be.

Simply Be and see.

Consider that you might be believing things without acknowledging that you are.

Edited 1 hour ago by UnbornTao