Are you a believer? Or; How much of a believer are you?

[UnbornTao]

7 hours ago, Eskilon said:

@UnbornTao I believe in Peter Ralston and Adi Da just like uuuuuuuuuuu *sarcasm

Praise the Lord, Amen!

You've just been banned indefinitely from this place, no sarcasm allowed.

-

That occurs regardless, but there's a (subtle at times) difference between listening, and believing.

The object of the belief isn't as relevant as the act and impulse to believe is - and of course this dynamic applies to this place too (hello ). This is why I created the thread, for the most part.

Edited 1 hour ago by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

16 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

He gave a lucid description of cult dynamics.  But Bakti yoga is a legitimate path to awakening. The beliefs are Buddha’s raft to be discarded once the river is crossed.

It’s delusional to make an enemy of beliefs because then you tends to believe that you are the special one who doesn’t have any beliefs and those beliefs you aren’t aware of are your reality, making you no different than the cultist.

That is not really the point. Believing is fine. The problem is mistaking it for the truth - which we do all the time - and not recognizing a belief for what it is. I'm not saying this effort is not deeply threatening to our sense of ourselves and the world. We'd rather accumulate more beliefs than discard them.

Notice the inherent vulnerability in not believing anything, if such a state can be achieved, and to whatever degree we move toward it.

The aim of this thread is to point out this need, too. And that analogy doesn't apply here. It could be used with models, meditation, theory, exercises, etc. - not belief. Belief would be like a rope tied to the boat, preventing it from moving toward the other shore.

Notice the dynamic playing out as we speak. For example, the promise of any practice is inherently adopted and assumed on faith. There's a bunch of assumptions (belief) underlying that short statement.

As you say, the bitch of this topic is finding out the ones we aren't aware of.

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Jordan said:

This applies to me a lot but I can remove certain beliefs for a certain amount of time. I believe that all beliefs are so simplified that they are in a sense all untrue, even that belief but that doesn't keep me from believing at the same time that my beliefs are absolutely true even though I see it is very childish. I still have to constantly remind myself beliefs are not what I am telling myself they are.

This is a wise thing to keep in mind.

You can have them - my suggestion would be to just recognize them for what they are (which unironically diminishes much of their power over us).

No belief is true - consider this. Some can be valid, useful, functional.

[Jordan]

6 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

This is a wise thing to keep in mind.

You can have them - my suggestion would be to just recognize them for what they are (which unironically diminishes much of their power over us).

No belief is true - consider this. Some can be valid, useful, functional.

Yes, they are not true in the sense that no matter what believes they are, they are not as accurately representing reality as they seem. They can still be crazy powerful. They can cure cancer and destroy civilizations.

[James123]

43 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

What do you mean?

Expectation, in my view, is imagining the future turning out a certain way - conceiving of a particular scenario for the future.

Expectations or beliefs are something about you, which is not there.

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Jordan said:

Aren't you concerned that you might be deceiving yourself with your own thoughts and emotions? Thoughts and emotions really don't seem like something you can trust in to tell you the truth.

I don't think we should believe their content, but to investigate their inner logic.