Why would it be impossible for God to create other minds?

[caspex]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It gets very tricky because illusion is reality.

It's just like a dream. The people in your dream are real, until you wake up. They are real relative to inside the dream, but unreal relative to outside the dream.

Other is relatively real. Not absolutely real.

Your dreams are relatively real.

Okay, so my hot witch girlfriend is genuinely real while I am in my dream, and she was 'never' real after I wake up. 
The way the term relative is used in context of all the other stuff implies that God is not a bigger circle encompassing a smaller 'dream' circle but that it is the same size, and in fact the same circle as the dream circle. The term 'relative' defines not the location of being within that dream circle within a larger God circle but the state of that one circle. This is consistent with solipsism.
However, 'never' implies that there's an 'explanation' which changes the state of this circle from dream to real. This is because 'explanations' or 'realizations' tell you that the previous state was never real or the way it was. It creates a deeper more basal reality. When you enter the dream again the 'explanation' ceases to exist and therefore the dream becomes real once again. You could say god lowers its consciousness by ceasing 'explanations'.
 

Now, unless I am completely wrong about the way I have been going about this, how can we know that these 'explanations' take us to truth beyond 'making sense'? All they do is change the state of that one circle. Explanations create basal realities which didn't exist (because there's nothing beyond one's experience) prior to the explanation's being. How would you know that after you wake up from the dream, you are in the same reality you went to sleep in, because the explanation for the new reality (because reality implies there being an explanation explaining away the dream, therefore causing you to wake up.) would create a basal reality telling you how this reality was always real and never not real. 

Unless there exists only one explanation to your dream there can't be any guarantee that you're waking up in the same reality. This is seriously concerning because there can only be one Truth. Unless you explain away each truth as being a different aspect of the ultimate Truth, such as Love, Light, Suffering, etc. terming them as different 'awakenings'. 

How could you ever know these different aspects are taking you to the ultimate truth? Knowing depends on explanations after all, and I wonder if explanations can be trusted at all, because they always will make sense and create a basal reality. 

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, caspex said:

How could you ever know these different aspects are taking you to the ultimate truth? Knowing depends on explanations after all

Awakening.

Awakening is not an explanation and it is more fundamental than knowledge.

Awakening is Truth itself.

[Mellowmarsh]

9 hours ago, Toranvor said:

Why would it be impossible for God to create other minds?

Because to create anything at all, implies the existence of a creator. And a creator would imply lack or limitation.
But God already being this immediate unlimited infinite infinity cannot lack anything. So the idea of “other minds”  is never the reality of God. 

[Ramasta9]

There is/are no others, ultimately. Its all one consciousness.

[Leo Gura]

@Ramasta9 But the Lizard!

[Dodo]

20 hours ago, Toranvor said:

Why would it be impossible for God to create other minds?

I’ve seen some people argue from a solipsistic perspective that God cannot truly create “others,” and can only create the illusion of others within himself.

The reasoning seems to be that if God is the only absolute consciousness, then anything that exists would necessarily exist within God’s own being. If that’s the case, then other minds wouldn’t be genuinely independent, they would just be appearances in God’s consciousness.

But I don’t see why this follows.

If God is omnipotent, why would it be impossible for God to create genuinely distinct conscious agents? Even if they depend on God for their existence, that doesn’t seem to imply they are merely illusions within God.

So my question is: what is the logical contradiction in God creating real “others”?

Is the claim that it’s impossible actually justified, or is it just an assumption coming from a particular metaphysical view (like solipsism or nonduality)?

Curious how people here think about this.

Ofcourse there are others. Thats how we can have a conversation without knowing it beforehand. 

The knowing self-reflecting element which makes our different minds/experiences knowable is the same mirror-like empty awareness and thats the only trully real thing.

Our separate experiences/minds are temporary content on the mirror of awareness, reflections whos substance is the mirror, our true self with no dimension. No dimension means its same for all.

Tldr: We are different reflections (different minds) on the same dimensionless mirror of awareness, our only reality is the mirror of awareness, but we appear as something else, an image on the mirror. The images are different, the mirror is one.

Edited 7 hours ago by Dodo

[Breakingthewall]

Why do you think perceived reality is imaginary?

There's something impossible to deny: everything that appears is related to something, to a prior condition. This prior condition can be a cause, the will of God, or whatever, but it is prior, it exists outside of what appears. So if there is something outside of what appears, there is infinity outside of what appears: other consciousnesses, other realities, whatever. 

Why even if you elevate your consciousness or reach god mode or whatever, you can't fly? Obviously, because there are infinite preconditions that prevent it, that make reality exactly as it is. You might say: because as god you imposed that limit. But you imposed it "before," it's an event outside of what appears, so what appears is limited. Then others realities are limiting it. How to denying this?

[Willy Phallicus]

Pythagoras, where we get numbers from, taught that the first great lie is 2 and from there all others follow.

I'm using that reference because it is somewhat of a math problem.  You can't get outside of infinity.  

Now I suppose you could ask why is that impossible for the omnipotent creator but the when the creator is that very infinity you're talking about then maybe you could see, the uhhhmm problem.  You can't have two everythings.   Just how it is.

Then the question of does that really matter when you can literally just dream up the other minds scenario and play it like it was 100% real to the point where even you can't tell the difference as its creator and get totally lost in it.

[Toranvor]

13 minutes ago, Willy Phallicus said:

Pythagoras, where we get numbers from, taught that the first great lie is 2 and from there all others follow.

I'm using that reference because it is somewhat of a math problem.  You can't get outside of infinity.  

Now I suppose you could ask why is that impossible for the omnipotent creator but the when the creator is that very infinity you're talking about then maybe you could see, the uhhhmm problem.  You can't have two everythings.   Just how it is.

Then the question of does that really matter when you can literally just dream up the other minds scenario and play it like it was 100% real to the point where even you can't tell the difference as its creator and get totally lost in it.

But why would it be impossible for God to create distinctions within Himself, billions of limited yet simultaneously conscious beings as in traditional non-dualistic views of other minds?

[Willy Phallicus]

Just now, Toranvor said:

But why would it be impossible for God to create distinctions within Himself,

What you're talking about is happening right now in front of your face and you're simply in denial about it.  

Let that sink in.

[Toranvor]

8 minutes ago, Willy Phallicus said:

What you're talking about is happening right now in front of your face and you're simply in denial about it.  

Let that sink in.

 

I'm not really in denial, I just want to understand solipsism as it's taught here. Wouldn't saying that God cannot have multiple perspectives simultaneously be a limitation?

[Monster Energy]

People misunderstand this as a limitation. Ask yourself can God kill itself? No. Does that mean God is limited? Of course not. It simply means the question is impossible because God is eternal. The same logic applies to the idea that God could divide itself. It’s not about limitation. It’s about impossibility. Infinity cannot be split into something outside of itself because there is nothing outside of it.

 

[Dodo]

5 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

People misunderstand this as a limitation. Ask yourself can God kill itself? No. Does that mean God is limited? Of course not. It simply means the question is impossible because God is eternal. The same logic applies to the idea that God could divide itself. It’s not about limitation. It’s about impossibility. Infinity cannot be split into something outside of itself because there is nothing outside of it.

 

People always talk about God like they know what God is... "Because God is eternal" - why? What is this God thing we are talking about and say its eternal? Have you met God? Did he/it tell you? Or did you read it somewhere? How do you know its true? 

 

[Willy Phallicus]

14 minutes ago, Toranvor said:

Wouldn't saying that God cannot have multiple perspectives simultaneously be a limitation?

Yes you are really in denial.  

You are god talking to yourself and totally convinced its two people having a conversation on this thing called the internet.  You don't think god can actually pull that off.  That's why you're here asking about it while it happens in your experience.

Edited 5 hours ago by Willy Phallicus
clarification

[Monster Energy]

1 minute ago, Dodo said:

People always talk about God like they know what God is... "Because God is eternal" - why? What is this God thing we are talking about and say its eternal? Have you met God? Did he/it tell you? Or did you read it somewhere? How do you know its true? 

 

God is existence, it’s not a belief. 

[Dodo]

12 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

God is existence, it’s not a belief. 

Why are you using such a loaded term to talk about simple being which is everyone's base experience? Are you trying to be mysterious?

Other people may use the label God to point to something else like some powerful entity they believe created reality, not existence itself, there can be some misunderstandings.

Edited 4 hours ago by Dodo

[Toranvor]

16 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

God is existence, it’s not a belief. 

I think I know where you are coming from, you mean that, since God is existence itself (this current experience), it cannot be divided, therefore, other experiences cannot exist?

[Willy Phallicus]

Gods experience is others having experiences.  You are one of them.  You are also god.  

I know its unbelievable but until you overcome the paradox of believing the unbelievable you're gonna be seeking forever.