Why would it be impossible for God to create other minds?

[Toranvor]

Why would it be impossible for God to create other minds?

I’ve seen some people argue from a solipsistic perspective that God cannot truly create “others,” and can only create the illusion of others within himself.

The reasoning seems to be that if God is the only absolute consciousness, then anything that exists would necessarily exist within God’s own being. If that’s the case, then other minds wouldn’t be genuinely independent, they would just be appearances in God’s consciousness.

But I don’t see why this follows.

If God is omnipotent, why would it be impossible for God to create genuinely distinct conscious agents? Even if they depend on God for their existence, that doesn’t seem to imply they are merely illusions within God.

So my question is: what is the logical contradiction in God creating real “others”?

Is the claim that it’s impossible actually justified, or is it just an assumption coming from a particular metaphysical view (like solipsism or nonduality)?

Curious how people here think about this.

[Someone here]

Because everything is the Self . There is no solution to this if you want to speak logically. All the animals ..humans..creatures..planets ..other universes..other minds ..etc are the same self. There just isn't any other option. Everything is the self ..and everything is happening within the self .if there was no self There would be nothing from the manifest world..Evident by when you are asleep there is literally no universe .

Not sure about the omnipotent thing to be honest .it creates logical paradoxes like the set of all sets and breaking the law of non contradiction etc. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Toranvor said:

So my question is: what is the logical contradiction in God creating real “others”?

 From Where would God come up with those others ? What is the clay which God creates things with ? Does he pull things out of his ass ? Well then they are still him. Does he pull them out of thin air? But where did the thin air come from if not from God? 

1 hour ago, Toranvor said:

The reasoning seems to be that if God is the only absolute consciousness, then anything that exists would necessarily exist within God’s own being

Exactly. 

[Hojo]

Think of it like a dream. If God created another concious agent it would have to perceive of it from within itself. If it perceives of it within itself it cannot say it wasn't part of its creation. If you are dreaming there are no characters outside your creation as you are creating it.

If you had a dream and were like are there any others outside of my dream. You wouldn't know unless one came into your dream and told it was outside of the dream and heard you and came to tell you its another concious being. But now that its telling you this that thing is in your dream and could just be perceived as another of your creations. You wouldn't be able to make the distinction unless you wanted to surrender your sovereignty as God and say there is something greater than my omniscience and I am not God. But then you could just be surrendering your sovereignty to a dream character you created.

If God was like there is only one universe and then it saw there were infinite more universe then it would have to say I created those as God.

Edited 6 hours ago by Hojo

[Toranvor]

31 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Because everything is the Self . There is no solution to this if you want to speak logically. All the animals ..humans..creatures..planets ..other universes..other minds ..etc are the same self. There just isn't any other option. Everything is the self ..and everything is happening within the self .if there was no self There would be nothing from the manifest world..Evident by when you are asleep there is literally no universe .

Not sure about the omnipotent thing to be honest .it creates logical paradoxes like the set of all sets and breaking the law of non contradiction etc. 

Even if anything God creates must ultimately come from God and therefore cannot be completely separate from Him, it’s not clear that this rules out the possibility of distinct points of view within God.

Why would it follow that everything must collapse into a single undifferentiated perspective?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Toranvor said:

So my question is: what is the logical contradiction in God creating real “others”?

By definition God has no other. God is Infinite Self.

Anything other to God would be outside of God, breaking God's Sovereinty and Oneness.

God can create pseudo-others. This requires God to lose consciousness of itself.

Other exists when God is not fully conscious. Other cannot exist once consciousness rises high enough.

So it depends on what degree of consciousness you are speaking from.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Toranvor said:

Why would it follow that everything must collapse into a single undifferentiated perspective?

It doesn't have to, until you are Infinitely Conscious.

If you insist on staying in a low state of consciousness then other can exist for you. It is an illusion but you are not conscious enough to know that so it act as if it is real for you.

It is like: if you only live on Earth and never fly beyond it, the Earth may as well be flat.

Edited 7 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Toranvor said:

Even if anything God creates must ultimately come from God and therefore cannot be completely separate from Him, it’s not clear that this rules out the possibility of distinct points of view within God.

Why would it follow that everything must collapse into a single undifferentiated perspective?

You are repeating the same question. 

There can be infinite things but they are ultimately still God and still united and still one. 

A lizard appears distinct from the moon.. So we have two appearances that are still one.

If you accept the premise that at the most fundamental level of reality there is one thing..then it follows that there can never ever be any  "real others" to that one thing .

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Someone here said:

A lizard appears distinct from the moon.. So we have two appearances that are still one.

If you accept the premise that at the most fundamental level of reality there is one thing..then it follows that there can never ever be any  "real others" to that one thing .

But what if one lizard somehow escapes?!

[Someone here]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

But what if one lizard somehow escapes?!

Where would it escape to ? 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Where would it escape to ? 

Under God's rug.

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Under God's rug.

That's not funny .

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

That's not funny

Then up God's butt and around the corner.

[LambdaDelta]

The trick is that the collapse does not imply erasure of form and 'reality' unlike it may seem. Inside the singularity of God-consciousness everything remains as-is — singularity is what you see before you here and now, except the part is now aware that it is the whole. It can access a bunch of crazy partitions within itself and maybe change some content here and there, but fundamentally the infinitely awakened self and the unconscious human self are both sub-infinities within the Absolute Infinity, the structure of which not even God can alter, as that would go against its own Will, Logic, and Love. The infinities may be of different cardinality or whatever terminology you want to use, but those distinctions are themselves imaginary. That's what Equality is.

So the idiots saying "you're already awake" and such are technically correct, yet nonetheless that's highly irresponsible teaching. 
Someone you've never heard of could be having an absolute awakening as we speak, which doesn't impact your current reality at all, but when you go have your own awakening you'll realize that all awakenings anyone has ever had were your own.

The selves of God are like sandboxed processes running in their own sovereign environments, but then as part of a larger holarchy we have the collectively constructed reality which makes it possible to talk to each other, have sex, abuse and infringe on the sovereignty of others, and all that good stuff. Which ultimately is still God playing pretend with itself.
Selflessness is being the hypervisor that maintains all this, but it's far from some dry, sterile thing — it's an engine of endless fun & mystery in the VMs. 

[Ziran]

6 hours ago, Toranvor said:

Why would it be impossible for God to create other minds?

The reasoning seems to be that if God is the only absolute consciousness...

... is the only absolute infinite consciousness ...

If God is absolutely literally infinite, then, all that was, is, will-be, wasn't, isn't, won't-be, and could-be already exists within it.

6 hours ago, Toranvor said:

So my question is: what is the logical contradiction in God creating real “others”?

The others are nullified like candle-light on the surface of the sun.

[vibv]

@Toranvor it’s possible but only temporary. All has to collapse back into God and He will remember that He has been all those beings all along.

There will be no difference in remembering You were Toranvor, Jesus, Hitler, Leo, vibv, etc.

[Leo Gura]

The mighty Other-Lizard licks itself in the corner.

[caspex]

6 hours ago, Toranvor said:

 

Why would it follow that everything must collapse into a single undifferentiated perspective?

 

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Other exists when God is not fully conscious. Other cannot exist once consciousness rises high enough.

So it depends on what degree of consciousness you are speaking from.

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It doesn't have to, until you are Infinitely Conscious.

If you insist on staying in a low state of consciousness then other can exist for you. It is an illusion but you are not conscious enough to know that so it act as if it is real for you.

It is like: if you only live on Earth and never fly beyond it, the Earth may as well be flat.

Doesn't this imply that the earth is actually, truly, flat unless you fly beyond it and take a look? 

I mean the very idea of an 'illusion' assumes something beyond it. But there's nothing beyond your own experience. The illusion has to be it, the truth. So the 'others' when you are in low consciousness cannot be an illusion but the real truth. And as you gain consciousness, you basically kill the whole world by 'realizing' there's no one else.

How does using the concept of 'illusions' make sense when you're talking about solipsism the way you describe it? Genuinely confused.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, caspex said:

Doesn't this imply that the earth is actually, truly, flat unless you fly beyond it and take a look? 

No.

It's a lose metaphore.

Quote

I mean the very idea of an 'illusion' assumes something beyond it. But there's nothing beyond your own experience. The illusion has to be it, the truth. So the 'others' when you are in low consciousness cannot be an illusion but the real truth. And as you gain consciousness, you basically kill the whole world by 'realizing' there's no one else.

How does using the concept of 'illusions' make sense when you're talking about solipsism the way you describe it? Genuinely confused.

It gets very tricky because illusion is reality.

It's just like a dream. The people in your dream are real, until you wake up. They are real relative to inside the dream, but unreal relative to outside the dream.

Other is relatively real. Not absolutely real.

Your dreams are relatively real.

Edited 45 minutes ago by Leo Gura

[LastThursday]

7 hours ago, Toranvor said:

So my question is: what is the logical contradiction in God creating real “others”?

God(s) isn't rational, we are. Plurality or singularity are the same to God. Fundamentally what is being experienced is both irrational and arbitrary. There are patterns in that irrationality and order in the arbitrariness, so you could argue about why this and why not this for ever; there is no ultimate answer.