Leo

[AerisVahnEphelia]

7 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I think you aren't necessarily disagreeing if I understand the above.

'Awareness is the first step' as they say. Key word there being FIRST. And the movement would be toward healing.

We can be fully aware of our issues and still be dealing with the brains maladaptive mechanisms operating like a reflex. Or a program. 

The brain is weird with trauma and experience in general. If only it worked in probabilities - instead it works in extremes in isolation. If we have one bad experience we tend to totally hone in on that ONE experience and extrapolate/find meaning there. And our behaviour and thinking is formed from the extreme experience. Instead of looking at all the different versions and outcomes (probabilites) of the experience that were more benign in nature. This seems to me to be a survival mechanism; pay attention to the lion chasing you after you and remember it always, and not the pebble in your shoe that finds its way in on the gravel road you walk down each morning.

I wasn’t disagreeing at all, I just got reflective with my own recent experience.
It’s hard to navigate people who believe they’ve transcended and therefore aren’t willing to grow or examine their own trauma or experiences.

You can’t really rise above something if you believe you’re already beyond it.
I always keep a window open to the possibility that my entire reality might be a complete delusion, just a way for my ego to navigate its own comfortable roleplay.

I’m not an expert on trauma healing. Most of “mine” was resolved through what I’d call karma burning or hardcore philosophy (Leo, Ralston type), basically controlling my attention and replacing “bad programming” with “good programming.”

But that doesn’t necessarily mean the deepest insecurities were truly transcended. I might still carry some that I’m not even conscious of.

Edited 16 hours ago by AerisVahnEphelia

[Natasha Tori Maru]

17 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

I wasn’t disagreeing at all, I just got reflective with my own recent experience.
It’s hard to navigate people who believe they’ve transcended and therefore aren’t willing to grow or examine their own trauma or experiences.

You can’t really rise above something if you believe you’re already beyond it.
I always keep a window open to the possibility that my entire reality might be a complete delusion, just a way for my ego to navigate its own comfortable roleplay.

I’m not an expert on trauma healing. Most of “mine” was resolved through what I’d call karma burning or hardcore philosophy (Leo, Ralston type), basically controlling my attention and replacing “bad programming” with “good programming.”

But that doesn’t necessarily mean the deepest insecurities were truly transcended. I might still carry some that I’m not even conscious of.

I hear that - 100% with you  

Been a very similar process to my own. I am not sure if I could ever claim to have transcended shit. It would just be self deception if I spoke of overcoming all the cumulative conditioning I have gathered through life experience.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

5 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I hear that - 100% with you  

Been a very similar process to my own. I am not sure if I could ever claim to have transcended shit. It would just be self deception if I spoke of overcoming all the cumulative conditioning I have gathered through life experience.

The bullshit you see about me is that I m just french.
Sadly I suspect  certain things can't even be transcended . . we are just made of bullshit.
But I m almost certain than reckoning it is always better.

Edited 16 hours ago by AerisVahnEphelia

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

I m playing all you.

So you assume the other is some feature of you basically?

[AerisVahnEphelia]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

So you assume the other is some feature of you basically?

That's you projecting Joseph. 

Wait. . 

[Sincerity]

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Me wishing Leo to go to therapy is done out of love.

The thing is that you don’t know whether he needs it. He’s already said no, but people love to think they know what’s best for someone else and insist on it. Love is also respecting one’s will and choices, even if you personally would do things differently.

But I don’t believe love was the prime motivator for this thread from the start. I was mainly talking about charitability in the context of the original post, not therapy. But I can’t know, you be the judge of what your motivation/dynamic was.

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

And the "child-parent" narrative is cute, perhaps projection.

I called it child-parent, but it’s about perceived authority in general.

You are no stranger to this dynamic. We as Mods experience it at times towards us.

Edited 5 hours ago by Sincerity

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

The thing is that you don’t know whether he needs it. He’s already said no, but people love to think they know what’s best for someone else and insist on it. Love is also respecting one’s will and choices, even if you personally would do things differently.

But I don’t believe love was the prime motivator for this thread from the start. I was mainly talking about charitability in the context of the original post, not therapy. But I can’t know, you be the judge of what your motivation/dynamic was.

I called it child-parent, but it’s about perceived authority in general.

You are no stranger to this dynamic. We as Mods experience it at times towards us.

It's interesting because as this thread developed i was able to see it from both sides.   A lot of young people look up to Leo as a role model - now whether anyone should take another person as a role model is a slippery slope...for the reasons you and i point out.  I doubt Leo himself ever looked to anyone as a role model - rather he absorbed the knowledge they had to offer..respected them, but then tread his own new pathways.  He had leadership qualities.  On the other hand, the reality is that younger guys are going to put him on a pedestal..that's just the reality of it.  Like a kid that loves basketball looks up to Michael Jordan.  For these reasons he should work towards holding himself to a higher standard and this includes humility..which is part of the very stuff he teaches.  So it is diminishing to ones look and more importantly to themselves if they don't embody their own teachings or work towards that.  I think Leo realizes this and is working towards being a more humble human being. As I said it's not easy for those of us with large egos.  It's our large egos that gave us the ambition for this work in the first place.

And so I can see it from both sides.  And by the way I'm not saying @Carl-Richard looks to him as a role model but I know a lot do and this may have been something he wanted to speak up about.  Or he was generally concerned that psychedelics had fried his brain.  I think his more egoic and irrational behavior was immediately after the psychedelics and has calmed down a lot.   There definitely is a cost involved with spiritual work.  Its dangerous.  And true awakening can drive you insane and you may never come back.. I almost didn't.  So for Leo to see what he has seen it's amazing he's still here in one piece mentally at all.  So there's that aspect.  But its not an excuse.  If you aren't right sometimes it's good for a friend to let you know so that you can take time away to get right.

Edited 3 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Sincerity said:

The thing is that you don’t know whether he needs it. He’s already said no, but people love to think they know what’s best for someone else and insist on it. Love is also respecting one’s will and choices, even if you personally would do things differently.

But I don’t believe love was the prime motivator for this thread from the start. I was mainly talking about charitability in the context of the original post, not therapy. But I can’t know, you be the judge of what your motivation/dynamic was.

Again, this is what I think and feel. No claims of Absolute knowledge. This should be obvious and not something that needs to be said. This overly defensive attitude is indicative of the very dynamic I'm pointing out. Everything that is said is not that serious. It's a thought, a feeling. You can share it without expecting it to be taken as some absolute insight into reality that must be adopted or else you're fooling yourself and not being openminded enough, etc.

By reading the quotes in the original thread, what do you think I was pointing out? By reading what I literally said in a later comment in the thread, after being done hearing what other people might think about it, what do you think I was pointing out? And how do you think therapy might possibly tie into it? And do you think I was sincere in suggesting that as a genuine solution or step in the right direction, or was that just an expression of outrage? Let's hear what you think and feel. No need to "you can't know this" anymore. That's done now.

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think his more egoic and irrational behavior was immediately after the psychedelics and has calmed down a lot.

The past quotes was to make the case clearly. The quotes from 2026 carry the same core issue. The point of making the thread is the issue is still going on today. I was curious what people would think when the behavior was presented in a concentrated form, without me adding anything to it, and generally what would happen if I made such a post, because honestly, the behavior has made me ambivalent (not as much completely indifferent) to being in this place so I had less to lose by doing it.

But Leo took it as an oppurtunity to at first embrace the behavior ("that was the journey I had to go through to get to this point") and not lash out on me (brilliant move of narrative control) and then only later in baby steps concede that the behavior might be wrong somehow (which @zurew postulates is yet another attempt at narrative control, but we can hope there is some light in the end of the tunnel). And then he hopefully sincerely entertained the idea of perhaps getting an outside look on his own mind, which would of course be expected even as a point of curiousity from a guy who claims to be the most adept at epistemology he has ever met.

And to be clear, it's not about "trauma" necessarily (as that can be defined in many ways and tends to have a strong negative association with it), but simply getting a look at the past and how it might affect the present. It might not even be worthwhile and it might not even work, but simply getting the message across that this is the problem (and this might be the solution), is worth it and that's why I made the thread.

It was also a way to make people clear on what is being taught (i.e. not enlightenment but something else) and hear what they think about that and whether that is what they came here for. And also to make the case that they should perhaps be more honest about what they think and feel and not bullshit themselves too much about whatever invisible Absolute Infinity carrot is dangling in front of them.

Edited 34 minutes ago by Carl-Richard