Why atrocities in Gaza get defended so much relative to others

[Karmadhi]

Hello

I have been thinking lately, especially after rewatching Leo's videos on Spiral Dynamics and the 9 ego stages series about something

I have noticed something which I personally find very disturbing

So even though the world is much safer than lets say 100 years ago, there are still conflicts going on

One of them is ofc the conflict in Gaza since 2023 which has so far killed at least 71.000 people

What I have noticed relative to other conflicts, despite the insane amount of footage, statements and reports/investigations is the insane amount of denial and rationalization I see

If we take for example the genocide in Rwanda, the atrocities in Sudan or what is going on in Myanmmar, there is an overall collective understanding that they are wrong and that the parties commiting them are not very good actors.

So, most people would agree the rebels of Sudan or the interahamwe in Rwanda were bad actors that did bad things

What happened is awful etc

But when it comes to Gaza, I see a lot of people defend the actors that did the bad things

I see a lot of rationalizations, a lot of defensive mechanism and biases

Some of them absolutely shameless

Why is this the case?

People will defend the IDF without any sort of shame, say everything bad is an accident or not intentional etc

I have not seen people defend for example the rebels in Sudan this way

Even though the evidence is insane (arrest warrents by ICC, tons of reports by every credible organization, footage, genocidal statements by the Israeli government etc)

Now whether it is a genocide can be discussed

Whether it is better or worse than X conflict can be discussed

No issue there

But to simply state that the IDF did bad things and is guilty of bad things is still not agreed on a consensus like lets say the rebels of Sudan is

Why is this the case?

Why defensive mechanism, co-opt of logic and rationalization, everything Leo talks in "Self-deception" gets triggered by this conflict and not other conflicts.

It is a lot of people that seem to love to defend this conflict, much more than people that rationalize Russia's invasion of Ukraine for example 

I would like some ouput

Thank you

Edited Monday at 03:26 PM by Karmadhi

[Schahin]

20 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Hello

I have been thinking lately, especially after rewatching Leo's videos on Spiral Dynamics and the 9 ego stages series about something

I have noticed something which I personally find very disturbing

So even though the world is much safer than lets say 100 years ago, there are still conflicts going on

One of them is ofc the conflict in Gaza since 2023 which has so far killed at least 71.000 people

What I have noticed relative to other conflicts, despite the insane amount of footage, statements and reports/investigations is the insane amount of denial and rationalization I see

If we take for example the genocide in Rwanda, the atrocities in Sudan or what is going on in Myanmmar, there is an overall collective understanding that they are wrong and that the parties commiting them are not very good actors.

So, most people would agree the rebels of Sudan or the interahamwe in Rwanda were bad actors that did bad things

What happened is awful etc

But when it comes to Gaza, I see a lot of people defend the actors that did the bad things

I see a lot of rationalizations, a lot of defensive mechanism and biases

Some of them absolutely shameless

Why is this the case?

People will defend the IDF without any sort of shame, say everything bad is an accident or not intentional etc

I have not seen people defend for example the rebels in Sudan this way

Even though the evidence is insane (arrest warrents by ICC, tons of reports by every credible organization, footage, genocidal statements by the Israeli government etc)

Now whether it is a genocide can be discussed

Whether it is better or worse than X conflict can be discussed

No issue there

But to simply state that the IDF did bad things and is guilty of bad things is still not agreed on a consensus like lets say the rebels of Sudan is

Why is this the case?

Why defensive mechanism, co-opt of logic and rationalization, everything Leo talks in "Self-deception" gets triggered by this conflict and not other conflicts.

It is a lot of people that seem to love to defend this conflict, much more than people that rationalize Russia's invasion of Ukraine for example 

I would like some ouput

Thank you

 

One but not the only factor is the Anti-Muslim Narrative that has been nourished for alot of decades right now.

Even the Iraq Invasion and 4 Million Casualties on the Iraqi side were fiercely advocated and promoted because Arabs and Muslim are the New inferior Race in many european eyes.

Because Europeans and Americans are the Descendants of the Superstitious Colonizing Slaveholders and Crusaders so you still have reminiscents of Racial Superiority and thats also why they abuse their Christianity for Identity Politics: "We against Them" they dont use Christianity in order to love their neighbour as themselves and to help the poor, they use it merely as a means of Identity Politics.

Of course that doesnt apply to all, you have amazing Americans and Europeans defending human rights and equality., but just the fact that Israel was able to carry out such a brutal Genocide for 2 years without a single sanction, like not even the most basic sanctions against Illegal Settler Terrorists, shows you very well how the Colonizer Slaveholder, Racial Superiority Attitude was inherited to many Europeans and Americans.

Edited Tuesday at 11:40 AM by Schahin

[Elliott]

White V. Brown = "improving the world" ( to many)

Black V. Black = "savagery, look at those savages"

Ignorance. Fear of unknown(other cultures).

 

Look even in the u.s., Ashley Babbit-"Noooo!", Tre'von Martin-"HE WAS WEARING A HOODY!". One lady is killed by illegal immigrant-"Deport all the Brown people!", White guy kills 100 people-"what can you do? 🤷 They're in heaven now." . One illegal rapes a girl- " THEY'RE SAVAGES!". The president runs a child sex ring-" no one is perfect. Lord says we must forgive! 🤷"

Edited Tuesday at 04:53 PM by Elliott

[Karmadhi]

On 2/17/2026 at 0:37 PM, Schahin said:

One but not the only factor is the Anti-Muslim Narrative that has been nourished for alot of decades right now.

Even the Iraq Invasion and 4 Million Casualties on the Iraqi side were fiercely advocated and promoted because Arabs and Muslim are the New inferior Race in many european eyes.

Because Europeans and Americans are the Descendants of the Superstitious Colonizing Slaveholders and Crusaders so you still have reminiscents of Racial Superiority and thats also why they abuse their Christianity for Identity Politics: "We against Them" they dont use Christianity in order to love their neighbour as themselves and to help the poor, they use it merely as a means of Identity Politics.

Of course that doesnt apply to all, you have amazing Americans and Europeans defending human rights and equality., but just the fact that Israel was able to carry out such a brutal Genocide for 2 years without a single sanction, like not even the most basic sanctions against Illegal Settler Terrorists, shows you very well how the Colonizer Slaveholder, Racial Superiority Attitude was inherited to many Europeans and Americans.

Jews have been arguably the most persecuted group in history by Europeans and Israeli is basically a Jewish state

Russians, especially ones in Moscow and Saint Peters which are seen as the opporesor Russians are White and look how much hate and sanctions Russia got.

There is defenietly a racist anti Islam component here but it does not explain everything

How would you explain what I wrote above?

[zazen]

@Karmadhi

What @Schahin wrote is great and just like he said - its one factor. The question arises - why Islam in particular iif the follow up contradiction to this is that Russia is also targeted despite them being white and not the muslim ''other''? What do China, Iran and the others have in common for them to be targets? They don't bend the knee to Western imperialism and are powerful / geo-strategically significant enough to be targets.

Civilizational states and identities (cohesive, motivated, sovereignty minded) are harder to subjugate than divided tribal identities or smaller states, hence the classic divide and rule. Explains why Pan-Arabism was subverted, as with Pan-African gold backed currency proposed by Libya's Gaddafi.

Understanding the mechanism behind imperial power helps understand why certain regions / countries / peoples are ''villains'' and why others are ''allies'' and protected ie Israel.

Wrote the following on the Russia/Ukraine thread:

''The Atlanticist empire's of Britain, then passing the baton onto the US - were built off dominating the sea's (trade routes, chokepoints) and finance (reserve currency). Any continental integration happening outside of that control threatens their primacy - including Eurasian integration.

The ongoing struggle since WW2 has really been about preventing any independent power center / pole outside Atlantic control - including of Europe itself being one.

It's been talked about since centuries - Mackinder's world island theory, Spykman's Rimland theory, Brezinksi's great chessboard. ''Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland; who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island; who rules the World-Island commands the world.''

Hence why Iran-Russia-China are boogeymen - they share the worlds largest landmass and don't want to bend the knee to that primacy. Hence why Israel was strategically seen as a beneficial outpost and frontier state (from Britain till the US) - occupying space on that same land. Biden said Israel is the best investment - and investments require a return on that investment. That return is not for the national interest but for imperial interest.

Hence Greenland's importance - with Artic sea routes opening up trade outside Atlanticist control that would benefit integrating Europe to Asia. That results in Europe gaining future leverage and increased autonomy away from the US orbit - which pre-empts early geostrategic positioning to maintain primacy. Hence Venezuela, a country in the US hemisphere trading outside of the US dollar (reserve currency) needing to be disciplined whilst signalling to other countries not to defect from the financial system that upholds their dominance.

BRICS neutralises Atlantic imperial primacy via finance (non dollar settlement) and trade (land based belt and road). This is the ongoing battle and the great game at play.''

 

I'll add that there is the civilizational myth (the civil part is the myth lol) around Zionism being part of Western civilization. That pre-dates Israel and is institutional - despite many Westerners themselves now opposing Israel's action -it's protected by the halls of power.

The reason its considered part of Western civilization despite being in the Middle East: Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism by centuries - its a vessel for Western exceptionalism and imperialism, manifest destiny and evangelicalism - all that just so happens to converge on Israel. Zionism became the perfect moral language to launder those interests through especially in a post-colonial era where the norms of outright conquest and colonial rhetoric could no longer be explicitly spoken.

 

**

Basically boils down to identity, cultural-civilizational myth making and imperial interests converging. Call it ''Atlanticist Zionism'' for short. The Atlanticist part explains the imperial logic behind preventing continental integration, the Zionism part explains the narrative layer that justifies those moves in post-colonial era where you can't be blatant about it. We are seeing them revert back to the civilizational talk now - Rubio's recent speech to which Eurocons gave a standing ovation.

Edited Wednesday at 01:08 PM by zazen

[Kid A]

There are probably many reasons, but October 7th is an important one. Israel differs from Russia in that regard.

[LordFall]

Because it's a complicated geopolitical conflict and both sides are violent psychopathic murderers. Gaza's primary form of government was a literal terrorist organization that killed thousands of people. In a case like this it comes down to complex foreign policy and negotiations not so much the Israelis are literal Nazis(which I do see people literally say.)

I'm not sure what you mean by Israel and the IDF not getting backlash, they are one of the most hated political entity in the world right now alongside the US government and the Russian government. I think I still see gaza protests happening near me in Canada, latest one was a couple months ago. 

 

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

Because it's a complicated geopolitical conflict and both sides are violent psychopathic murderers. Gaza's primary form of government was a literal terrorist organization that killed thousands of people

It killed 1000 people and the IDF killed like 100.000 at least if we count previous wars.

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

Israelis are literal Nazis(which I do see people literally say.)

They have members in their government which speak as such.

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

I'm not sure what you mean by Israel and the IDF not getting backlash, they are one of the most hated political entity in the world right now alongside the US government and the Russian government. I think I still see gaza protests happening near me in Canada, latest one was a couple months ago. 

And there are as many defending Israel too, something I do not see people do for the rebels of Sudan for example.

I do not see 2 hour debates about that issue.

I do not see so many world leaders defend or rationalize it nor medias sugar coating it

The hate Israel gets comes from actors that do not have any power, from activists, NGO or random citizens that protest. The actors that have actual power do an insane cover for Israel, people like Starmer, Biden, Merz, Farage, Trump, Musk. All the media top people, the top tech firms and political leaders.

There is a clear agenda here.

Edited Wednesday at 08:42 PM by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

7 hours ago, Kid A said:

There are probably many reasons, but October 7th is an important one. Israel differs from Russia in that regard.

I get that but to be honest this sentiment was there even before October 7. Look how many countries did not recognize Palestine before October 7. I feel it is used as a scapegoat to rationalize the irrational support for Israel amongs powerful actors and forces like politicans, tech CEOs, medias etc.

 

[Karmadhi]

7 hours ago, zazen said:

I'll add that there is the civilizational myth (the civil part is the myth lol) around Zionism being part of Western civilization. That pre-dates Israel and is institutional - despite many Westerners themselves now opposing Israel's action -it's protected by the halls of power.

The reason its considered part of Western civilization despite being in the Middle East: Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism by centuries - its a vessel for Western exceptionalism and imperialism, manifest destiny and evangelicalism - all that just so happens to converge on Israel. Zionism became the perfect moral language to launder those interests through especially in a post-colonial era where the norms of outright conquest and colonial rhetoric could no longer be explicitly spoken.

This is key!

I feel like Israelis are seen culturally as European (and half also ethnically) because so many came from Europe and the European ones seem to be overpresented in the governments

So it feels like it is an European country

Which is funny because they claim to be indigenous to the Middle East yet also claim to have European values

Which one is it  

[Basman]

October 7th was brutal, but general sentiment of Israel is tanking. I think most neutral people would agree that the Israeli response is disproportionate and opportunist. A land grab/ethnic cleansing under the pretext of terrorism and generational trauma. Boy cried gas chambers is starting to ring hollow from one of the wealthiest and most powerful people on the planet oppressing some of the least developed countries on the planet.

[LordFall]

47 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

The hate Israel gets comes from actors that do not have any power, from activists, NGO or random citizens that protest. The actors that have actual power do an insane cover for Israel, people like Starmer, Biden, Merz, Farage, Trump, Musk. All the media top people, the top tech firms and political leaders.

There is a clear agenda here.

If you mean why don't other world governments condemn Israel then it's simple, they have more political power and relevance than Sudan does. What's so confusing about that? Human societies are built around power, which is how we end up with a powerful pedophile as head of the united states government and a crazy anime character protagonist authoritarian as head of china.